Possibly presaging a future pattern of early-week phone polls to tie us over until the Friday face-to-face, Roy Morgan brings us a phone survey of 611 respondents showing Labor leading the Coalition 59-41 on two-party preferred, and by 50 per cent to 36 per cent on the primary vote. Morgan alternated between phone surveys and larger-sample face-to-face polls until the end of August, after which it moved exclusively to face-to-face.
hi judy (89). i didn’t actually write that comment on the death penalty.
cheers
I have just sat though the News.com vote-o-meter according to it my perferred choice is Howard followed by Rudd.
I felt some of the questions could have been better put, but it was quite a nice exercise.
[Interesting hypothetical re Howard going overseas for the Pacific Islands Forum.
Could the Acting Prime Minister ask the GG to disolve parliament and issue the electoral writs?]
Then Kevin Andrews cancels Howard’s citizenship so he can’t get back into the country? 😛
[Tactically, I think the comments about the Bali bombers are the worst thing I have heard from the Labor campaign all year, it is incredibly off-message]
Yeah I couldn’t believe it either, especially coming from McLelland who is usually very dependable. I thought it was only Labor MPs from the left that made big mistakes. 😛
although, i hasten to add, i am indeed vehemently opposed to capital punishment.
As with all elections the things we are getting worked up about now are irrelevant.
When the election is called all sorts of rabbits will be pulled out of all kinds of hats on both sides.
The problem for Howard is that the ALP has many more killer rabbits.
They have been doing the hard yard groundwork, the ACTU has said they have a few surprises for the campaign, lots of other single issue groups are mobilising.
Poor Libs – they are a shambles. Hope is all that is left.
Dinsdale P, the Bali attacks occured after Howards very well publicised and newsmaking in Asia “pre-emptive strike” comments.
[Dinsdale P, the Bali attacks occured after Howards very well publicised and newsmaking in Asia “pre-emptive strike†comments.]
Which were made as part of the infamous “deputy sheriff” interview.
Snakeboy #85: I’m sure Labor would have the tape of Minchin putting his foot in it. I myself heard it broadcast on ABC News. Downloaded it from the ABC site some months ago. Possibly it is still available for downloading, should one know where to look.
Good to see you contributing again, BTW. Where is Liverpudlian I wonder.
[Poor Libs – they are a shambles. Hope is all that is left.]
Bob Day, the Liberal candidate for Makin, seemed to have a class of primary school kids wearing his t-shirts last week at my local shopping centre.
It made me laugh, but don’t know how many votes it will win.
Yes ShowsOn. Who is to say that the Bali attacks were not Howards fault to some degree. It could be argued that he was picking it (a fight).
This will be the attempted wedge, and will win some votes. The people who see it as a smear, or are anti-death penalty, are already voting Labor anyway. I just hope it isn’t as effective as I fear it will be.
Interesting that people seem to think that the death penalty comments were a mis-step. I know what you mean by that, but I have to say I was delighted to see someone pointing out the hypocrisy of asking for clemency for Australian citizens but being positively gleeful when other nationalities are sentenced to death.
The Monthly has a great article on it here (subscription required, I’m afraid).
I’m disappointed that Rudd feels he has to knock the discussion on the head (awful timing though, I can see that) – I quite like the idea of an ethical and consistent position on the issue.
In any case, I shall be going to a town hall meeting in my electorate on Thursday to debate human rights issues – apparently all the federal candidates will be there, so I’ll get Costello’s opinion at first hand…
Snakeboy #85
Recording of Minchin to the HR Nichols Society, broadcast on AM, ABC Radio, 8 March 2006
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200603/r75168_211956.mp3
[Yes ShowsOn. Who is to say that the Bali attacks were not Howards fault to some degree. It could be argued that he was picking it (a fight).]
I wouldn’t blame Howard for it. Who knows the sort of lunacy that drives terrorists to do what they do. A big part of it I think is envy of the power and general prosperity of the major democracies.
HOWEVER, I think Costello’s remarks accusing Labor of “SUPPORTING” convicted terrorists because they want them to rot in jail is atrocious, but our gutless media won’t call him out over it.
Of course if a reporter said to Costello “How is saying someone should be locked away in jail forever “support” then that person would promptly be accused of left wing bias.
YOU BEWDY!
Shaping up to be a bad week for Labor despite the polls which are inflated as always…
What amateurs what bloody amateurs and you people think Rudd and the ALP is ready to govern!!!
This most recent gaffe shows that Kevin Rudd cannot control his shadow ministers…he is ignorant of what they get up to…that the ALP’s inexperienced front bench will make such stupid statements to support sparing the lives of terrorists…Rudd is so hungry for power that he chucks a long held ALP policy out the window because of The Australian’s headline lol what a noob…
We have another L plate campaign shaping up and unlike Latham, Rudd is making it easier for the Liberals…
Burke
Sunrise
Rein
Strippers
Tax rates
and now death penalty gaffe lol!
Wayne Swan also needs to eat his words his attacked Turnbull for being wealthy so being out of touch but somehow the Rudds who probably have more money than the Turnbulls are somehow not out of touch with average Australians…i am picturing in my head some beautiful advertising…
Wayne Swan says being wealthy means you’re out of touch with the electorate…so what does he say to Rudd trying to purchase a 5 million dollar beach house….
Heheheh the ALP time and time again put their foot in it royally…only this time they are further ahead…but it’s just one scandal to the next with Rudd if the Media goes soft on him as they will we’ll know who have decided the election because if it was one of Howard’s Ministers announcing a policy and then because of a bad headline the next day attacking the Minister and his office and chucking the policy the Media would be on Howard like there’s no tomorrow.
Labor they’re all Learners!
glen, what are you on?
“glen, what are you on?”
Obviously hubris.
SMH Poll on the Death Penalty.
Terrorism and execution
Should Australia oppose the death penalty for terrorists overseas?
No. If it is in another country it is not our concern – 13%
Yes. This is a matter of universal human rights – 67%
No. We will lose if we go soft of terrorists who kill – 16%
Yes. It will help the plight of Aussies on foreign death rows – 4%
Total Votes: 2724
http://www.smh.com.au/polls/national/form.html
Apparently, members of the Liberal Party are beginning to get frustrated that John Howard has not been releasing the internal polling results, not even to senior Liberals.
On the McClelland blunder… I’m with Piping Shrike here. The death penalty blunder was a stupid one for Labor. Merely stating they don’t comment on specific cases on the death penalty for non-citizens would be enough.
Seriously, Glen seems to have these moments when he switches from intelligent, cogent Glen (whose quite interesting to debate against) to ranting, raving Glen (whose just an idiot…) Maybe it’s something in the water he drinks at the end of the day…
Glad you said that ShowsOn, because I was hoping that was not the implication of what you were saying. I think it is a very dangerous game ascribing motives to these lot.
Glen, I hope the Libs run the campaigns you suggest…they would be hilarious. Unfortunately I think they wont, because they would be seen through so fast that the Coalition vote would drop further (if that is in fact possible).
[Shaping up to be a bad week for Labor despite the polls which are inflated as always…]
Yeah, tell me what the national party vote is, I haven’t seen you write about that for a few hours.
[What amateurs what bloody amateurs and you people think Rudd and the ALP is ready to govern!!!]
Better than the government who thought WorkChoices was a good idea. Which incidently is a policy you never write about, because even you seem to agree it is going to cost the government the election.
Glen what are you up to?
Just read the comments to the Australian article. “Worst of both worlds”. Two anti government comments ( the only sort there) contained the word hubris.
Kina@97
Rudd doesn’t seem to be having any trouble getting his fair share of coverage (according to my ABCwatch anyway) http://um.com.au/ABCwatch
Swing Lowe the fact that you resort to personal attacks in response to my criticism of Labor’s recent gaffe shows either you are incapable of defending such actions or you are incapable of making a solid argument…if you dont think this will cost Labor some votes you must surely be ignorant…the ALP’s policy last night was to save the lives of terrorists that doesnt sound good does it!
Well, I think the contents of the polls are pretty obvious then…
Why, Glen has got a spring in his step!
These are some of Barnett’s comments on Costello on front page of the West Australian today. Costello shunned making any comments about it when pushed at a press conference over in Perth this morning.
“Former WA Liberal leader Colin Barnett has launched an extraordinary attack on Peter Costello, accusing the Treasurer of undermining the State coalition’s unsuccessful 2005 election campaign and of failing to grasp WA’s economic potential.
Breaking his silence over Mr Costello’s controversial comments at the peak of the campaign, Mr Barnett told The West Australian yesterday that the Treasurer did not help the Liberals’ chances when he criticised the party’s key policy to build a canal to carry water from the Kimberley.
He also attacked Mr Costello for criticising the Liberals’ opposition to deregulated trading hours during the 2005 election and said the Treasurer treated WA like a “dig it up, ship it out†State.
“(Mr Costello) criticised the Liberals and myself on the difficult issue of trading hours . . . He also criticised the Kimberley canal proposal and ended up starring in the ALP campaign advertisements. Needless to say, I was not impressed,†Mr Barnett said.
“The irony is that water is now centre stage as an issue for all of Australia. Don’t be surprised if water from the north starts to look attractive for the east coast as well as the west coast. Maybe (Mr Costello) should have thought about the issue a little more carefully a few years ago.—
Centre 125#
When you are this far behind any gaffe by the Opposition is a much welcome relief to the agony of looking at another dreaded Morgan Poll lol!
Yes KT, it’s my understanding that the polling is usually shared with a group of rougly 6 senior Ministers. This hasn’t occurred this time.
As for Glen, you know if the ALP win the election you’ll be able to console yourself that McClelland made a blunder 2 months ago.
I think Tim/Glen is drunk.
[shows either you are incapable of defending such actions or you are incapable of making a solid argument…]
When do you ever make anything that remotely resembles an argument? You just constantly spout the same lines that the government is using, which today seems to include Labor of supporting terrorists.
So that should appear any moment now…
[the ALP’s policy last night was to save the lives of terrorists that doesnt sound good does it!]
WOW there it is! Right on time.
Do you guys suppose we could discuss the polls rather than having catfights amongst ourselves.
It’s a pretty bad poll for the government alright. Methinks it’s going to get lots worse for them if they continue talking about the death penalty.
…only this time they are further ahead…
and further ahead as each poll is released.
As usual Howard is preaching to the converted, the death penalty will not swing a single vote in his favour.
Another day wasted by Howard, he has not got too many left. 😉
ShowsOn, you’ll get Tony Zappia as your member, your lucky, he’ll be a good parliamentry worker and he’ll have plans for your district for the future, he’s done wonders in Salisbury.
Passthepopcorn, i’m wholeheartedly anti the death penalty, a friend of mine who’se daughter was murdered in the truro murders was able to forgive Miller, there is no way i could go that far –but then Annemarie was always a far better person than me.
All right, Glen, I will try to engage you in a reasoned debate on this…
Yes, Labor will probably lose some votes from this mistake – it looks amateurish and smacks of me-tooism (I think I said this on the other thread…).
BUT, it is not a fatal mistake for Labor – the government will not go around saying that Labor supports terrorists – mainly because everyone knows this is not true and it looks like pure desperation. Instead, this issue will probably die (at the latest) by the end of the week after the Bali Bombings Anniversary. After that, everyone will be wondering when the election will be called (if they aren’t already).
As a further note, the unfortunate death of Trooper David Pearce (if I’ve correctly recalled his name) in Afghanistan has limited the amount of oxygen this mistake will get in the media. Most media reports so far are headlining with this story, with the death penalty thing being second or third story. Once again, this shows that any damage suffered by Rudd over this thing will be limited and will wash through (probably) before the next Newspoll is taken…
[When you are this far behind any gaffe by the Opposition is a much welcome relief to the agony of looking at another dreaded Morgan Poll lol!]
What about the gaffe Costello made when he said Labor “supports” terrorists? That’s a gaffe of George W Bush proportions.
[Maybe (Mr Costello) should have thought about the issue a little more carefully a few years ago.â€]
Not likely, he’s too gutless.
[Apparently, members of the Liberal Party are beginning to get frustrated that John Howard has not been releasing the internal polling results, not even to senior Liberals.
Well, I think the contents of the polls are pretty obvious then…]
My working theory is in a year’s time we will be able to read about what really happened during the last two or three months. I doubt it will be about working as a TEAM, rather I think it will involve Howard refusing to consult with cabinet about when the election will be, and the duration of the campaign. I think the only people Howard is consulting with now are Crosby / Textor and Janette.
Rudd Press Conference re McClelland and Death Penalty.
[JOURNALIST: Mr Rudd, on another matter, your Defence spokesman, Robert McClelland, has talked about a regional push to stop the death penalty in the region. Is that something you fully support?
RUDD: When it comes to the question of terrorism, my attitude has always been hardline and will always be hardline, and that is that every measure should be deployed to track down, to hunt down and to destroy terrorists and terrorist cells wherever they are in our part of the world.
Secondly, I believe that if terrorists are incarcerated they should be allowed to rot in jail. I believe that terrorists should rot in jail for the term of their natural lives and then one day be removed in a pine box.
Beyond that, when it comes to the question of the death penalty, no diplomatic intervention will ever be made by any government that I lead in support of any individual terrorist life. We have only indicated in the past, and will maintain a policy in the future, of intervening diplomatically in support of Australian nationals who face capital sentences abroad.
On the wider question of the death penalty, the Liberal Party’s policy, like Labor’s policy, is identical, and that is our global opposition to the death penalty. In terms of the prosecution of that matter, that is best done multilaterally through the United Nations.
JOURNALIST: What are your thoughts on election …?
RUDD: Just to add on one final thought on that. You raise the question of the speech yesterday. I think as we approach the fifth anniversary of the Bali bombings, I believe that the speech delivered last night was insensitive in terms of its timing. I’ve indicated that to Mr McClelland this morning and he concurs with that judgement. Sorry, your question?
JOURNALIST: Your thoughts on the timing of the election?
RUDD: Oh look, I think on a day like this, when our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those who’ve been directly and most immediately affected by events in Afghanistan, I’ll leave my remarks there.
Thank you. ]
http://www.alp.org.au/media/1007/pcloo090.php
i support the death penalty for john howard
[ShowsOn, you’ll get Tony Zappia as your member, your lucky, he’ll be a good parliamentry worker and he’ll have plans for your district for the future, he’s done wonders in Salisbury.]
I’m in Sturt, so hopefully Mia Handshin will defeat Pyne.
But I agree with you, Zappia is a great candidate, I saw him at my local supermarket a couple of weeks ago.
SWING LOWE: “- the government will not go around saying that Labor supports terrorists”
I’m not so sure, here is an interview with Peter Costello today:
“I think it was a very strange time for the Labor Party to come out in SUPPORT of the Bali bombers,” Mr Costello told reporters in Perth.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22553775-661,00.html
138
Only a political death penalty, I wish him a long and fruitful retirement. 😉
McLelland pointed out it is a bit hypocritical to ask for death on one hand and no death on the other. He does happen to be right.
He also used it as a talking point about a very important issue, the destruction of our international reputation.
The arguments against the death penalty are pretty clear:
1) The state can’t undo it’s mistakes if the person is dead.
2) So it saves the cost of keeping a person in jail for the rest of his life, big deal.
3)The rule of law is not about revenge.
[McLelland pointed out it is a bit hypocritical to ask for death on one hand and no death on the other. He does happen to be right.]
I agree. People who say no death penalty for Australians, but death penalty for others are in effect supporting the death penalty.
Downer has tried to have it both ways as recently as today.
[The arguments against the death penalty are pretty clear:
1) The state can’t undo it’s mistakes if the person is dead.]
I totally agree for a good example of this may I point to the Andrew Mallard Case.
http://www.andrewmallard.com/
Heres the drum,
The election will be called by this weekend. Why? Nervous MP’s would rather be in there electorates campaigning rather than cheap point scoring against Labor in parliament whilst the Labor candidate is on the ground building up a formidable profile.
The PM would rather be in Bennelong than at some South Pacific leaders Forum. Also lets not forget the millions of tax payers money for the cost of flying in to Canberra for parliament to sit…for what?
Apart from the above reasons the polls are not going to get any better unless an election becomes a sort of a hope for a circuit breaker. Fat chance! And now for something different………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_zulGddP6o
Enjoy.
ShowsON,
I take that on board. What I meant to say was that the government wouldn’t go around DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN saying that Labor supports terrorists on the basis of this one statement (which has now been retracted). My mistake for not thinking when typing…
The government was obviously going to go on the offensive about this today – it would have been stupid not to, given it was effectively a free kick – but I don’t think this is the sort of thing that is going to resonate strongly into the election campaign.
The more concerning wedge for Labor would be if the government tried to introduce legislation or started to campaign on introducing the death penalty for acts of terrorism in Australia. As I’ve said before, however, this would also rip the moderate wing of the Liberals apart (as well as the ALP). There’s also the fact that most of the media seems to think that McClelland’s original stance was the more principled and correct one (see SMH’s editorial today, as well as Sid Marris’ piece in The Oz)
Speaking of the death penalty i think Australia should have it…
I think we should execute mass murders like Julian Knight and Martin Bryant, Peter Dupas, Paul Denyer, John Wayne Glover and Ivan Milat…the fact that taxpayers have to pay to keep these ‘bastards’ alive is a joke…
I would also support the death penalty for convicted child molesters and serial rapists…
It’s a shame we dont have capital punishment even though it is not fool proof and it has its issues i still support it.
[The election will be called by this weekend. Why? Nervous MP’s would rather be in there electorates campaigning rather than cheap point scoring against Labor in parliament whilst the Labor candidate is on the ground building up a formidable profile]
But doesn’t that mean he has to call it by tomorrow or Thursday. M.P.s would start booking flights and accomodation by then. It would be getting off to a pretty bad start fighting off claims that the P.M. has just wasted a heap of money on air fairs.