Roy Morgan has come through with the first poll of this election year, and it’s a peculiar beast combining face-to-face results from last weekend and the distant weekend before Christmas (December 19/20). Labor’s primary vote is down 3.5 per cent to 45.5 per cent and the Coalition’s is up 1.5 per cent to 37 per cent, with the Greens up two to 10 per cent. On two-party preferred, Labor’s lead is down from 59-41 to 57-43.
Ha first,I would not mind if the blew that Jap whalers out of the water,they killed two uncles of mine who both survived Changi Prison,and one on the railway,the booze got them both,read Behind Bamboo or the Knights of Bushido,and you understand where they are coming from and how the Japanese should be treated
Perhaps the Sea Shepherd should harpoon David Suzuki.
Fulvio
#1058 end f last thread
“But Uluru is not just a part of Aboriginal beliefs, it is also a part of Australia, it is a huge, unique and magnificent geological structure and is a world heritage listed area.”
Well said , but it is also an example of one th main reasons for aboriginee disadvant that neither th Green Hacks and th Liberal robots undrstand
Aboriginees do not tink they ar part of Australia at all , aboriginees believe they ar australia and us 20 millions is not part of australia So before they start , Aboriginees leeders ar denial of th VERY Western civilizaton econamic & sosial model REQUIRED to deliver any peoples incl aboriginees living standard improovments
geograph , many aboriginees locate in areas so remote from industry & servises its not cost eficent to provide all servises and/or there is no industry there for jobs , even if they sent there kids to school….which of itself is anothr denial of Western methods , self fulfiling thee kids to th same fate Even when located close to cities , th educ problam of not sending kids two school arises
you can not hav living standards advansement wihout edacaton , and then without being where there is bisnessess to employ them Aborigees can not today keep blamin th past for th now , they hav to take some responsibilitees , but too politcaly corect for people to say so Its not all ANY Govts fault
am not sayin giv up all therecultural thoughts , we don’t ask imigrants to do that either , but to go ahread , must be “part” of Australia , th aboriginees refuse to be , preferring “purity” in poverty
can jst see Adams reply , a histarical lesson of bad events hapening to Aborigees in th past , well that argument plus just pouring my guess 10 billion into aboriginees over 30 years , is proven to be a failutre seeing there has been little reel progress
Ron
Adam’s comment would be much the same as yours. He believes that until indigenous people become Westerners that they will not achieve the health outcomes etc that are found in Western cultures.
They can choose to remain in a separate culture but they can’t have it both ways.
Before I cop it, I’m just the messenger on this one.
Many people here esp Boerwar feel very differently to Adam.
John: Unless the ‘Jap whalers’ served as guards at Changi Prison, your notion would seem to be a non sequitur.
Let’s see, what other ‘national’ icons do we have where people have open slather to climb it like they do Uluru?
1. War Memorial? Try defecating on that. Try climbing the exhibits. Nope. Must be a different rule for that national icon.
2. Cathedrals in Melbourne and Sydney? Try climbing them. Try defacating in the choir stalls, let alone the altars. Nope. Must be a different rule.
3. Sydney Opera House? Everytime someone climbs that and hangs something off it they get arrested. Nope. Must be a different rule.
4. The wreck of HMAS Perth, a national icon and a war grave? Just try diving on that. You would be arrested under the War Graves legislation. Nope. Must be a different rule.
5. Would you like to drive to the top of Mt Kosciusko? Do it and get arrested. Nope. Must be a different rule.
Anyone for ‘balance’?
Looks like there is one rule for Indigenous ‘national’ icons and another one for whitefella national icons.
The very basis of Rudd’s apology has been eroded with this decision.
Dio@4:
[He believes that until indigenous people become Westerners that they will not achieve the health outcomes etc that are found in Western cultures.]
For once I agree with him. Put a nick in the radiogram.
Ron
Various Australian Govts placed the Aboriginals in the communities where they now lived, it’s not a ‘denial of Western methods’ – it’s a product of Western Methods.
The problems Aborigines face are largely a product of Western Methods. We see the same problems in Nunavut, in the First Nations People in the US… in almost every country that has been colonized and the indigenous people displaced. So I ask you what’s more likely? Is it the fault of these indigenous cultures or the largely Western Cultures that displaced them? To my mind it makes more sense that given all underwent a similar the process of displacement, it is this process that creates problems.
Dio, I think Adam’s philosophy on this issue is pretty simplistic and that this statement (assuming he made it) is creating a false dichotomy
[“They can choose to remain in a separate culture but they can’t have it both ways.”]
There is no unique Australian or Aboriginal culture for anyone to belong to.
Also note that we (and yes I mean you and I) have profited a great deal from their displacement.
Oops the last sentence was supposed to be directed at Ron.
#Boerwar
You can’t even sit on the steps of the War Memorial in Hyde Park without some security guard telling you to p. off. Hardly a “living memorial”.
Then famously a few years back the Premier of NSW went ballistic when some juveniles “graffited” some war memorials, claiming they were destroying the memories of their forebears who fought to give them the freedom to be out late at night. My obvious question was – What were the Premier’s forebears doing in WWII to secure this freedom.
Some ppl just want everything their own way.
For those interested, RN breakfast had a debate on the fltering laws this morning. Must say the opponent of the filter was fairly unintelligible and incoherent. Clive Hamilton cleaned him up fairly comprehensively.
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2010/01/bst_20100108_0743.mp3
don
[ He believes that until indigenous people become Westerners that they will not achieve the health outcomes etc that are found in Western cultures.
For once I agree with him. Put a nick in the radiogram.]
Perhaps the argument was easier to agree with sans the patronising and obnoxious tone.
NB I used “sans” in tribute to his style.
GG
I think you are merely experiencing confirmation bias.
Clive Hamilton says that we won’t be able to see graphic rape, bestiality disturbing sexual imagery etc with the filter in place.
That’s simply not true. The filter won’t stop people looking at it. The problem is that the technology can’t stop it because the technology doesn’t work.
Remember this system relies on the public alerting the govt of suspect sites.
It’s going to be another grocerywatch for the Govt, because they will continuously reminded of when it has failed.
John
My Dad had holidays at Changi, the Burma railroad and Ubon air base courtesy of the IJA. He is quite open to discussing his experiences and the issues and bears absolutely no animosity to the grandchildren of the perps.
After decades of badgering he got a letter that amounted to an apology from the Japanese Government, since handed over to the RSL.
He does think that WW2 will always be unfinished business as long as the Japanese refuse to acknowledge what they did.
He is just one person. Different people respond to such events in different ways. He has no time for hate. He says it just chews up the hater.
Had the misfortune an hour or so ago to catch a Tony Abbott interview on ABC NewsRadio.
Not apparently having the daily inhouse interview with the Liberal leader in the can, they had to therefore replay one from SkyNews.
Poor old Abbott is obsessed with Kevin Rudd. He used the man’s name fifteen times in a few minutes!
http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=4459
Surely that degree of fixation is not healthy. Abbott is becoming the Mad Abbott, or has already become.
[Perhaps the Sea Shepherd should harpoon David Suzuki.]
Am I missing something?
I had the misfortune to listen to “Liberal Radio” in Sydney today, aka 2GB!
When they’re not bashing Rudd or Labor, they’re elevating to hero status this idiot farmer stuck up the pole!
Actually most of what passes for supposed informed comment on 2GB is rather venal and offensive, and I’d advise Rudd not to waste his time listening.
And does anyone else find Abbott’s sudden conversion to the anti-whaling cause completely opportunistic?
Greg Hunt is their media whore, he loves publicity.
Peter Spencer, the business and public relations figure currently on deathwatch, due to his 47 day hunger strike, looks in remarkably good health and makes me wonder if prayers are being offered up to Mother Mary McKillop to intercede. If so, then there is the possibility of a third miracle for us to celebrate.
Diogenes
Posted Friday, January 8, 2010 at 4:12 pm | Permalink
“Ron Adam’s comment would be much the same as yours. He believes that until indigenous people BECOME Westerners..”
crap
i actualy said
“am not sayin giv up all therecultural thoughts , we don’t ask imigrants to do that either , but to go ahread , must be “part” of Australia , th aboriginees refuse to be , preferring “purity” in poverty”
exampel , we respect say Muslims diferent dressess , veils , there ‘chants’ , special days , kneeling everywheres , fasting for some reason i tink , as part of not just religon but there culture Dittoo , Aboriginees
So respect peoples basic culture pref with some understangng compassions, but it can not over rode how majority of us live in oz , we ar one Nations
but to get improvemts in living standards ad jobs , then you MUST be on th “educaton , econamic and sosial model” bus !!! Asia is still Asian but is driving that bus
its th only bus that goes to improving th disadvantaged , with obvous a small % in each Group noty makin it for many reasons , but with Aboriginees th massive MAJORITY do not make it , as they ar not on th bus
Now what YOU said is Adman’s opinion , of becoming “Westerners” presume culturlesser , which is a diferent opinion to my take , if you aint misquoted Adman
Just a thought on the Democrats (as in the Australian, Don Chipp type).
I’m a reasonably safe vote for the ALP, if they are moderate and good economic managers like Rudd (which doesn’t mean I don’t totally disagree with some of their policies!). But sometimes the ALP really seriously pisses me off, with its regular bouts of factionalism, nepotism and incompetence. Hell would freeze over before I would vote ALP at the next NSW election.
So what do I do? In the past I would have jumped left and voted Green. But from lurking on this blog I’ve learnt a lot about the Greens. They are dangerous extremists, every bit as dangerous as the ignorant hate-filled bigots of the far right. The Greens think our entire society is rotten and want to destroy it, in the name of protecting the environment. To be replaced with what, self-governing autonomous medieval villages surrounded by wilderness or some such rot. No way I’ll vote Green again.
The Liberals? Maybe if they had a leader like Steele Hall, or if Turnbull had purged the far right and dragged them to the centre, just maybe. But a policy-free buffoon like O’Farrell, with a collection of nutters in the background like Clarke, Hawke. No chance.
So what’s left? Where are the Democrats! They are just what I need right now, somewhere safe and non-threatening where I can dump my vote until the NSW electorate sweeps out the trash from the NSW ALP.
So what’s happening with the Democrats? Do they still exist in any credible form? Any chance of them reviving? (I guess not) Gee, Australia would be so much better off if it was the Democrats rather than the Greens with the BOP. You don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone……..
[1. War Memorial? Try defecating on that. Try climbing the exhibits. Nope. Must be a different rule for that national icon.]
Before Westerners brought over toilets, where exactly did they go to the toilet in Uluru?
Maybe they really need to consider putting porta-loo’s onto of Ayers Rock so that people don’t have to do it the “natural way”.
Aborigines can never turn into westerners. They are hunter gatherers, that means they are used to going out everyday looking and hunting for their food(whereas westerners are more farmer/settlers).
Unfortunately due to great stupidity on the part of lefties and bleeding hearts they demanded that these communities have full access to grog, cigarettes and unrestricted welfare benefits.
Now these people have gone from people who used to work all day to get a feed, to having it delivered to them on a silver platter by the government. So if they aren’t hunting and gathering, what do they have to do all day? Nothing, so they get on the grog and sniff petrol to fill their days in.
The solution to this problem is to force anyone on benefits to work. If they don’t work, cut their benefits. I hear there are no jobs in these communities, well the government needs to create them… heck get them sweeping dirt if it fills in the day, ANYTHING to keep them occupied and have some worth to live.
Arbeit macht frei
Parramatta Centrist,
I saw an article on ABC Online at some stage in the second half of last year which was talking about attempts by the Democrats to revive themselves. There may have been a couple, actually.
One of them, as I recall, suggested that they were having a hard time sustaining their registration. Whether this was for a State or Federal election, I’m not sure.
Parramatta Centrist, I understand your dilemma. I’m now at the point that I think that we should do away with state governments. As far as I am concerned they are redundant in this day and age
[I saw an article on ABC Online at some stage in the second half of last year which was talking about attempts by the Democrats to revive themselves. There may have been a couple, actually.]
Sounds like like Lazarus with a Quadruple bypass.
What killed the Democrats was the rise of the Greens. Out goes one fringe left wing party and in comes another.
Jesus Christ, Truthie, get a life!
I had made a pledge not to take thebait, but your @23 is the biggest load of old bull I’ve heard in 20 years.
[I had made a pledge not to take thebait, but your @23 is the biggest load of old bull I’ve heard in 20 years.]
Yep more denials and excuses and we’ll have another 100 years of failed policy.
We’ve been doing it the lefties way for quite some time now, giving hand outs and free housing… and guess what?! It’s FAILED.
If you keep doing the same thing you will continue to FAIL.
My idea is a complete reversal of the current welfare state system. We’ve heard the same excuses for decades now, it’s really time for a big change in policy.
[SNIP: Racist comment deleted – The Management.]
Bloody hell Toothy, you still refuse to pick somebody your own size.
[Arbeit macht frei]
Cuppa. is that mach 2 or mach 3?
Ronster
I expressed it inexactly. I should have said adopt Western lifestyles. He certainly doesn’t say they have to lose their culture.
[Adam’s comment would be much the same as yours. He believes that until indigenous people become Westerners]
Diog, we can always ask for Wacko Jacko’s bleach formula. That will do the trick.
Finns and Cuppa
[Arbeit macht frei]
I saw that they found that famous sign which was stolen a few weeks ago.
[I saw that they found that famous sign which was stolen a few weeks ago.]
And who was it that stole it?
[We’ve been doing it the lefties way for quite some time now, giving hand outs and free housing… and guess what?! It’s FAILED.]
From ’96 to ’07?
Parramatta Centrist,
Where did you get these impressions about the Greens? From Frank and GG? Hardly impartial.
And Ron, if you are going to post an arguament, it would help if you use grammer and spelling so that people can understand what you are saying.
[And who was it that stole it?]
Umm, AS, Greens, Labor hacks, all 3?
Ask a serious question and get a silly answer.
[Parramatta Centrist,
Where did you get these impressions about the Greens? From Frank and GG? Hardly impartial.]
Perhaps from the posts by Bob, Astro Heysen marj etc 🙂
Dave@37:
[And Ron, if you are going to post an arguament, it would help if you use grammer and spelling so that people can understand what you are saying.]
That’s argument, not arguament, and grammar, not grammer!
Always a problem when you criticise someone else for spelling, you have to triple check all posts for the next week or two.
You leave Ron alone, I enjoy his posts. When you can write as well as he does, you can start nitpicking about unimportant things like grammar and spelling and punctuation.
Pedantic things like that are important to me, for my writing, but I try not to inflict my biases on others in that respect. Some fine people with very high intelligence, like Ron, just can’t spell worth a damn, or don’t think it is important enough to bother about.
That was a shocker at 23,Troothy. I think a spell out there, helping out, might give you a chance to rethink that one.
Did anyone see Uhlmann rudely interrupting Peter Garrett at 7.30 tonight. I wanted to hear Garrett not Uhlmann trying to show off his non-interviewing skills.
Did he do the same thing with Tony Abbott the other night? I missed that one.
Gawd, hurry back KO’B.
Finns, Diog,
That’ll be mach 666.
#19 – Billy
ROTFLMAO – 😆
It sounds like it was stolen on order by some sicko collector of memorabilia, rather than being a neo-Nazi plot.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1237423/Stolen-Auschwitz-sign-Arbeit-macht-frei-turns-hundreds-miles-away-cut-pieces.html
[A former leading European neo-Nazi has claimed that he was the middleman in the theft of the Auschwitz sign bearing the three most powerful words from the Holocaust: “Arbeit Macht Frei”.
According to Polish and Swedish investigators, the theft was organised by Anders Hoegstrom — who set up the virulently anti-immigrant National Socialist Front in Sweden in the 1990s. “My role was to get the sign in Poland,” he told the Swedish tabloid Expressen. “I was the middleman and was supposed to take care of the sale.”
Mr Hoegstrom claims that he turned himself in to the Swedish authorities when he suddenly became aware that the sign was to be sold to a collector and the money used to fund a campaign to disrupt the Swedish election campaign this year, if necessary with violence.]
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6980065.ece
Parramatta Centrist 21 – I believe the last Democrat is “leaving the station” at the forthcoming SA election – their last elected representative will depart the SA Upper House.
I have worked around remote aboriginal communities and also varying sized country towns. I have always seen the problems in aboriginal communities as a microcosm of the problems of small country towns generally. If people in a small remote town want a good tertiary education they generally have to leave their town and head to “the big smoke” – later they have to decide between their country roots and their own future. Obviously many then never return, no matter what their original intentions were.
On many other issues there are similarities – the over-dependence on state welfare, the poor access to health services, higher rates of teen pregnancy, the lower life expectancy, the higher suicide rate to mention a few. The “fringe dwellers” in our country are not all black.
GREAT NEWS for CC
AGL stated they ar risking curent investment uncertainty over an ETS , and will plan a gas fired Staton in west Vic & start build now ! , first to speak to vic & Feds probably re planings etx and maybe for some asistanse , hope AGL only asking for reasonable help
Now this 850 m w palase will provide electricity for 700,000 homes , to complete 2012
so its good news week , but a insect spoiler , for “balanse” th News just had to get anothyer opinion in adds to AGL & Vic govt Now would that be th man in th Street re reacton to this reducing CC No not on your lifes , just get some whaco Greens groups “considerd opinion” who says it is not good news as plant will increase CC until a coal fired station is closed , err we know that but that was not th point you whacos
point was good news , a ‘start’ on th long road to replace ‘ocal’ , starting with 800,000 homes , and to build momentm from it politcaly , econmamicly and media wise , not negatives
see i snuk an extra 100,000 homes there , blame it on th Green whaco annoyin me
[long road to replace ‘ocal’]
What is ocal?