GhostWhoVotes reports a federal Nielsen poll to be published in tomorrow’s Fairfax broadsheets will show the Coalition, unchanged on last month. More to follow.
UPDATE: GhostWhoVotes further relates the primary votes are Labor 35 per cent (up one point), Coalition 43 per cent (steady) and Greens 13 per cent (down one), and the poll also shows support for gay marriage at 57 per cent and opposition at 37 per cent.
UPDATE 2: The poll finds little change in the leaders’ personal ratings. Julia Gillard is stable on both approval (54 per cent) and disapproval (39 per cent), while Tony Abbott is up two on approval to 47 per cent and down two on disapproval to 48 per cent. Gillard’s lead as preferred prime minister is 53 per cent (steady) to 40 per cent (up a point). The Coalition leads as best party to handle interest rates (47 per cent to 33 per cent) and create greater competition between the banks (46 per cent to 32 per cent). Fifty-five per cent now believe the government should serve a full term, against 42 per cent who would like a new election as soon as possible.
UPDATE 3: Essential Research also has the Coalition leading 51-49, for the third week running. Julia Gillard’s approval rating is at 43 per cent, down two on a month ago, and her disapproval up one to 38 per cent, while Tony Abbott is up a point on approval to 40 per cent and down five on disapproval to 40 per cent. Gillard’s lead as preferred prime minister has narrowed from 49-33 to 45-34. There are also questions on viewing of sport on free-to-air and pay television, presumably apropos of the anti-siphoning issue – although opinions on this are not engaged directly.
[chinda63Posted Monday, November 22, 2010 at 6:25 pm | Permalinkbemused: with you 100% and echo your sentiments.
As much as a respect Frank as a True Believer, at times his own rhetoric – not to mention his annoying habit of insulting those who are merely arguing a shade of grey, rather than coming from an opposing point of view – is completely over the top.
There are people on here who seriously need to take the blinkers off and take a good, hard look at the party. A primary vote figure of anything less than 40% is NOT GOOD and should not be spun as such. We need to put all of our policies on the table and look at what does work – not only for the populace, but for us as a group of people who do (and should) actually believe in things – and what doesn’t.
What we should NEVER do, is just parrot the party line. Accusing people who don’t of “helping to elect Tony Abbott” or similar nonsense isn’t helping anyone, least of all the Labor Party as a whole.
And I say this as a party member of 20+ years (and a HTV card hander-outer for 8 years before that).
]
The Libs parrotted the Party Line and looked where it gotb them – a heartbeat away from The Lodge.
dave
at least we name names
😉
Puff@522
If you do not live in a Labor held electorate please do as BH advised and send your concerns to your Duty Labor Senator seeking advice and assistance. That is what they are there for!
What is the future of the Labor Party?
Is it Liberal Lite?
Is it Green Lite?
Does it have any future other than being a pas-de-deux centrist party, your turn in government, my turn in government, with the Coalition?
With both parties being somewhat mediated by a Greens BOP in the Senate?
Labor refuses to withdraw ad and Ballieu issues Writ against them. Interesting
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/vafi-calls-for-greens-to-be-put-last-in-election-over-forestry-policy/story-fn5kmqy2-1225958424067
Gusface@602
Gus – its also being *honest*. Some are not prepared to do so. They want
to take a swing but hide at the sametime.
Why am I not surprised.
Boerwar @ 604
I know the future I would like to see.
I am a reconstructed supporter of the kind of policies pursued by the Whitlam Govt but updated to the present.
I believe we have to do what Whitlam did, have the courage to state firm policy positions and then engage in the public debate and win the required support. (This is where b_gs contributions are illuminating)
The NBN is in this mould.
This would position the ALP somewhat to the ‘left’ of it’s current position.
[davePosted Monday, November 22, 2010 at 6:36 pm | PermalinkGusface@602
dave
at least we name names
Gus – its also being *honest*. Some are not prepared to do so. They want
to take a swing but hide at the sametime.
Why am I not surprised.
]
And they don’t like it when I tell a few home truths on how Jaydin Bogan view the ALP either. They seem to forget that those people decide elections – not the rusted ons from EITHER side.
victoria
That is interesting. I imagine that it would be very hard for Baillieu to win anything when it is all political and that this would probably cover any public interest test.
Maybe he is just trying to bluff them into silence.
Maybe he lacks the required rhinocerous hide. A wuss.
bemused
funny you raised gough
the MSM really did him over
check out his book
btw
ta for that
I was with a couple who were very politically savvy. I pointed to a wireless tower and stated that there would be another 2-3,000 (each of them with a vociferous pack of NIMBIES) of them if wireless happened to be the technological answer.
They had no idea.
Frank – there are a variety of reasons the Libs came so close to the keys of the Lodge (or Kiribilli House, in Abbot’s case), not least of which is the toxic media giving them a leg up.
My point is that Labor is a different kettle of fish. We can’t and won’t get away with BS; we either have to have good, water-tight policies or a very, very good library of 3 word slogans. When the party comes out with crap policy, the last thing it needs is for Labor cheer squads to get out the streamers and pom-poms and jump up and down, squeeing like a bunch of fangirls. They need to be told the policy is crap, and by it OWN people, not by the Opposition (which they expect will oppose it).
How else will they know? Think of it as the “and I say this as your best friend …” argument.
It doesn’t make the person any less of a passionate party supporter … in fact, it can point to just the opposite. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind if you really want what’s best in the long run.
[GusfacePosted Monday, November 22, 2010 at 6:42 pm | Permalinkbemused
funny you raised gough
the MSM really did him over
check out his book
btw
ta for that
]
and in his attack on me he reckons Gough got a better media run.
He must have been on the wacky weed while at those Party Meetings 🙂
Gus @ 610
I recall the events he probably refers to in his book. I was standing well within earshot when he described Joh Bjelke Petersen as “a Bible basking bastard” ;). I also met the great man on a few occasions.
OK. I voted Labor in the House in the last election. I am dead against the Afghan War. I was dead against it before it started, being one of the very few hundreds who actually demonstrated against it, before it started.
Now my dear leader is out-hunning the hun on Afghanistan.
I understand the politics of wedge, but, by Crikey, I would occasionally like to see the Labor Party avoid a wedge BY MOVING TO THE LEFT ON AN ISSUE, ANY ISSUE.
bashing – not basking
We had that millionaire quiz program on the tv just now, and I heard Tony Abbott’s name as an answer to a question. I wasn’t watching and didn’t hear the question but I assume it was ‘Who is the biggest tosser in Australia?’
[bemusedPosted Monday, November 22, 2010 at 6:46 pm | PermalinkGus @ 610
I recall the events he probably refers to in his book. I was standing well within earshot when he described Joh Bjelke Petersen as “a Bible basking bastard” . I also met the great man on a few occasions.
]
Umm Gus was in short pants – but he was on the steps swinging on thhe 11.1175.
ptmd@617
as in quoits. 😉
Boerwar @ 615
I had a degree of uncertainty about Afghanistan, but was unequivocally opposed to the Iraq war.
The US is just plain stupid, or elects stupid Presidents, when it gets into such situations. Recommended reading: ‘The War of The Flea”.
The US elevated Osama and gang from the status of a criminal gang to military opponents. How stupid. They wiped out a sworn enemy of Osama (Sadam) and alienated much of the Moslem world. They are behind where they started.
dave,
Do you think b-g is one of this lot?
http://www.ecoamerica.org/about-us/team/team
[BTW – Can *anyone* point to where bg has be told to go or not post ?]
Exactly.
No-one has said b_g cannot post. We’ve just been defending our right to call his BS when we see it.
Of course the ALP media strategy is not perfect, but b_g was starting at a false premise – he is a self-confessed ABC bias denier.
Frank @ 618
Alas I was in Melbourne at that time and missed out on the events in Canberra. I vividly remember his famous words “Well may we say God Save The Queen, because nothing shall save the Governor General”. It was a time of high drama.
[That is interesting. I imagine that it would be very hard for Baillieu to win anything when it is all political and that this would probably cover any public interest test.
Maybe he is just trying to bluff them into silence.
Maybe he lacks the required rhinocerous hide. ]
One of those situations where he has to be seen to respond, at least until the election itself actually happens, I reckon bw.
My bet is that the whole matter will be quietly dropped once the election is over.
scorpio@621
The link there now is new. For a long time it was to a US republican/ green site.
Strange combination, paricularly these days, but there you go.
Boerwar,
[It is interesting to see that the Coalition is sticking to the Government having ‘lost its way’ meme in QT. It is buttressed by some public soul searching by Labor. ]
I’m sure they will be forever grateful to the lame-brain in the ALP who thought that was a good way to differentiate the Gillard era from the Rudd one.
blue_green is anti-Labor from both the left and the right.
He’s certainly entitled to have that position however curious it may be, but he should expect to be challenged when he proffers glib, and in my view, insincere media advice to Our Julia.
Scorpio – case in point.
What the Labor Party needed was a bunch of True Believers telling them that was a totally STUPID thing to say, and hopefully it would have been said just the once, rather than repeatedly.
As a result, it is now a meme that is not only accepted by Labor, but is now being used by the Libs to hit us over the head further.
The fact is it is just not true. Not then, not now. It should NEVER have been used in the first place – it was just bad politics; very ill-advised ll round.
[No-one has said b_g cannot post. We’ve just been defending our right to call his BS when we see it.]
What did you think of his discussion with a few of us about De Bruyn and the latter’s attacks on gay marriage this morning? Seemed to me to raise some questions that Labor would be well advised to begin to come to grips with rather than sweep under the carpet.
Once you start to silence people through straightforward persistent abuse you run the risk of firstly appearing like a bunch of brownshirts, and secondly stifling debates that it is really in everyone’s interests to have out in the open.
[I’m sure they will be forever grateful to the lame-brain in the ALP who thought that was a good way to differentiate the Gillard era from the Rudd one.]
This is merely the symptom of one of the draw-backs on a change in leader that early – it was always going to have some fall out, no matter how it was termed. But in my view, it was offset by a number of benefits, most notably saving the government from defeat – I know others may disagree.
*all round
Boerwar 611
[I was with a couple who were very politically savvy. I pointed to a wireless tower and stated that there would be another 2-3,000 (each of them with a vociferous pack of NIMBIES) of them if wireless happened to be the technological answer]
I’ve told people this (without knowing how large the numbers are) – Conroy should be shouting it from the rooftops (or mobile towers!)
Well there are those here who seem to think the opposite – that it should
be a permanent one way street.
He IS going to be challenged no matter the bleating.
Darren Laver @ 622
I do not see near as much ABC bias as do some others here. They seem to see almost every report as an anti-Labor conspiracy.
I wonder how much time is invested in cultivating journalists?
I learnt a bit at age 15 when I started writing the press report for my swimming club. It wasn’t enough to give them the information, you had to make it as easy as possible for them to publish and to get a bit of prominence for the report and get a photo in, it paid to do some work following up with the journalist.
I carried this forward when putting ALP press releases in to the local papers back in the 1970s. I found that if I typed up the press release on the small pieces of paper the type setters expected to get it on, the journalist then didn’t have to re-type it and I would get it in verbatim. A bit of time building a relationship with the editor worked too and we always got a good run while doing those things.
Low level stuff, but the principles apply in the big league.
Feed the journalists with easy to use material.
Give them some good lines to quote – pithy, hard hitting. Try to give them a ready made headline.
Cultivate them to influence them and get them to see it from your point of view.
Of course b_g has some excellent points on technique that are more sophisticated.
[Once you start to silence people through straightforward persistent abuse you run the risk of firstly appearing like a bunch of brownshirts, and secondly stifling debates that it is really in everyone’s interests to have out in the open.]
Rod, I agree that the gay marriage issue is one problem that needs to be resolved – and as a result, I have voted Green in protest against the ALP policy on this matter for a number of years.
But I also can acknowledge there would be some political fallout from the ferals and their bogans if Labor did take this issue on in such a precarious state. As a result, I think it’s quite appropriate to debate the timing of this issue – of course any sensible person would agree that there is no substance to the debate of whether to allow it, but simply when.
In the meantime, I will keep up the good fight against the craven Tony Abbott and his merry men – remember, it was only Our Julia who saved us from his becoming Prime Minister!
[Darren LaverPosted Monday, November 22, 2010 at 7:06 pm | PermalinkI’m sure they will be forever grateful to the lame-brain in the ALP who thought that was a good way to differentiate the Gillard era from the Rudd one.
This is merely the symptom of one of the draw-backs on a change in leader that early – it was always going to have some fall out, no matter how it was termed. But in my view, it was offset by a number of benefits, most notably saving the government from defeat – I know others may disagree.
]
Agreed – especially in WA Even though Labor didn’t gain any seats in WA – We held the omes we had. Under Rudd it would’ve been a near total wipeout.
And as for Queensland – The Libs were able to link Bligh with Rudd/Gillard – and it worked.
Rod – you are open to exactly the same comment. You are trying to silence
people in your own right now.
Pot meet kettle.
dave @ 633
Go ahead and challenge b_g, but do it by engaging with the points he makes and not an ill-directed attack against a straw man.
And a bit of civility on the part of some people would not go astray either.
william
i hope you are taking notes on how to run your blog
👿
634
Of course the press are lazy and vacuous and therefore easily led to fill copy – trouble is their owners and management aren’t inclined towards the agenda of the Gillard Government so as a result the ALP press releases and other bits of PR are put straight into the shredder, while the Coalition releases and associated talking points are swallowed whole!
This is now standard practice at their ABC – and of course it’s a vicious cycle since the press feeds off each other, copying and pasting like crazy. ABC even ran the Austrian milkmaid story simply because the others had! They declared it story once others reported on it – because that was now the story.
You’re naive if you don’t think that Fran Kelly has a copy of the Australian in her lap each morning or that their ABC News Breakfast has Sunrise and Today on in the background ready to run with whatever they’re doing that morning…
Darren Laver@635:
[But I also can acknowledge there would be some political fallout from the ferals and their bogans if Labor did take this issue on in such a precarious state. As a result, I think it’s quite appropriate to debate the timing of this issue – of course any sensible person would agree that there is no substance to the debate of whether to allow it, but simply when.
]
A case in point is Mike Williams- As an entertainer, he has worked with many gay people – Mike Walsh & John Michael Howson – and has no problem with Gay Marriage per se – his problem is when it comes to the Children of Gay Couple and this outmoded fallacy that a kid needs a Mum and a Dad.
Little does he realise most kids with problems come from families with such an arrangement Mike advocates – ie Mum & Dad.
I will do it in terms of williams rules, not in the way you direct me too. *straw man*
is something bg does well.
[Little does he realise most kids with problems come from families with such an arrangement Mike advocates – ie Mum & Dad.]
ABSOLUTELY, Frank, and as one who works with Guardianship children, I know only how true this is.
It begs the question, though; who is calling him on this BS? Apart from you, that is 😉
Boerwar
With respect to Ballieu suing Labor, t will be interesting to see how it plays out over next few days.
Darren Laver @ 640
I never really thought about it quite like that. They do have a segment on what the papers are saying so I just assumed she and others had access to all the major dailies and even overseas press.
She asks some fairly aggressive questions at times and any half competent ALP minister handles them with ease and turns them around. I have no objection to that. She also on occasions gives the opposition a hard time.
I think there are some people on here who are a bunch of sooks and can’t handle such things. It has been ever thus – get used to it – deal with it.
An excellent piece of advice you need to use yourself.
@Frank/636,
They also ran big FEAR campaign on Debt/WASTE.
[bemusedPosted Monday, November 22, 2010 at 7:28 pm | PermalinkDarren Laver @ 640
You’re naive if you don’t think that Fran Kelly has a copy of the Australian in her lap each morning or that their ABC News Breakfast has Sunrise and Today on in the background ready to run with whatever they’re doing that morning…
I never really thought about it quite like that. They do have a segment on what the papers are saying so I just assumed she and others had access to all the major dailies and even overseas press.
She asks some fairly aggressive questions at times and any half competent ALP minister handles them with ease and turns them around. I have no objection to that. She also on occasions gives the opposition a hard time.
I think there are some people on here who are a bunch of sooks and can’t handle such things. It has been ever thus – get used to it – deal with it
]
That post has just proven that you are in the category of “there’s one born every minute”.
And we’re sooks cos we can see through the media BS.
And as for this:
[And a bit of civility on the part of some people would not go astray either.
]
You cannot practice what you even preach.
[I think there are some people on here who are a bunch of sooks and can’t handle such things. It has been ever thus – get used to it – deal with it.]
are talking about calling out CT’s or the MSM bias
either way i agree
there are too many sooks who cant deal with the media bias
i think they are peeps who believe in fairness
dave @ 646
No tears in my eyes and no complaints sunshine.