Courtesy of the Age/Herald, the latest monthly federal voting intention numbers from Resolve Strategic have with Labor down a point to 36%, the Coalition up one to 34%, the Greens up one to 12% and One Nation steady on 5%. As ever, no two-party preferred result is provided, but I make it to be 55-45 to Labor based on 2022 election preferences compared with about 55.5-44.5 last time.
As with last week’s Newspoll, the poll gives Anthony Albanese his first net negative personal rating as prime minister, with approval down four to 40% and disapproval up five to 47%. Peter Dutton is up four to 35% and down one to 44%, with Albanese retaining a 43-28 lead as preferred prime minister, in from 46-25.
The worst news for the government comes once again from the Indigenous Voice, with a forced response question now putting no ahead 57-43, out from 54-46 a month ago. A question allowing for an uncommitted response has no leading 49% to 35%. Combining this month’s results with last month’s to get reasonable sub-samples, no leads 56-44 in New South Wales, 51-49 in Victoria, 61-39 in Queensland and Western Australia and 59-41 in South Australia, with yes leading only in Tasmania by 56-44 off a particularly small sample.
The poll was conducted Wednesday to Saturday from a sample of 1604.
Griff @ #47 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:33 am
Yes. It’s very much ‘bush talk’. You rarely if ever hear city people use the term. But then, I remember, there’s ‘They’re a Weird Mob’.
Mavis @ #49 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:36 am
Switched off when Meddy dropped his first service game. Knew it was all over. Ho hum.
Can’t wait for the head-job-ovic to retire……horrible little man.
I think perhaps the only good thing which might come from the certain referendum defeat could be that once the analysis-of-what-went-wrong-rubber hits the road a lot of no voters are going to discover how Dutton and Co fooled them and many will feel duped.
meher baba says:
Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:33 am
Griff: “If we are arguing hypotheticals, reparation is likely to be tied to mob rather than individuals. If someone want to join a mob and they are accepted, so what?”
In principle, I tend to agree.
However, I think that, in the event of reparations, we might well see some further litigation around the High Court’s “tripartite” definition of indigeneity as requiring 1. self-identification, 2. biological descent, and 3. recognition by an identified Indigenous community.
We might have seen the High Court make an interesting further refinement of this definition if the Albanese Government had not chosen to drop the Home Affairs portfolio’s challenge to the Federal Court’s ruling in the case of Shayne Montgomery: a New Zealander who had no biological descent from Indigenous people but who had been adopted and initiated by the Mununjali community in Brisbane, which the Federal Court ruled put him in the same category as two biologically Indigenous people without Australian citizenship whom the High Court had ruled could not be deported because Indigenous people are “ab origine” (by definition, belonging to Australia from its origins as a place inhabited by humans).
The recent expansion of the Indigenous population as recorded by the Census is significantly fuelled by the self-identification as Indigenous by a large number of people who grew up in ostensibly white families who were not part of Indigenous comunities but who carry (or at least claim to carry) some Indigenous DNA. Some of these people make no use of their claimed indigeneity, but others seek to participate in various programs and activities which are reserved solely for Indigenous people. The general expectation by both the courts and by Indigenous communities has been that they will only be permitted to do this if the relevant Indigenous community to which they claim to have blood ties accepts them as belonging to it.
However, the Montgomery case raises the possibility of the biological requirement being bypassed in future in favour of, say, a process of initiation: which would be consistent with some historical evidence from the early colonial period which reports people fleeing from one Indigenous community being permitted to become initiates of another community and also some instances of escaped convicts being so initiated.
I’m going to be interested in where these matters end up going. The approach that most Indigenous communities and leaders have taken up to now (with the major exception of Mansell and the TAC) has been to cautiously welcome anyone who claims to belong to their mob. Can this state of affairs continue?
_________
Thanks for the reasoned response that is essentially agreement. Personally I am reticent to require biological or genealogical descent as a third requirement, as it is against the principle of freedom to associate. As you mention, historically there has been movement between peoples.
And to carry this hypothetical further, why not have more and more Australians self-identify and be accepted as First Nations peoples? 🙂
However, history tells us that, in general, inclusivity decreases as the value of a label increases.
Edit: I should mention that I used the word ‘label’ deliberately, as opposed to ‘identity’, to distinguish between what one identifies as, and what one is referred to as by others.
goll @ #44 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:27 am
Where is the major Yes campaign campaign to refute ‘the vile Lies, and more Lies, the Ten Reasons To Vote No lies pummelled into peoples brains by the Liberal National and Media Machines working overtime to spread fear and filth’
Mexicanbeemer @ #50 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:37 am
Our thought lines are still not intersecting I think. My point was that in Australia (multicultural, modern, call it what you like) it is still counterintuitive for non-indigenous people (I used the generic ‘White Man’ expression) to listen to First Peoples (I used the generic ‘Black Man’). And I suggested that that is the background frequency / resonance behind why the Voice Yes vote is tanking.
Mexicanbeemer @ #34 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:13 am
poor and supine
Re the cultural diversity of modern Australia, I have seen someone (Socrates?) suggest on here a few times lately that the Anglo-Celtic population of Australia is now less than 50 per cent.
In reality, I believe it’s somewhere between 60 and 70 per cent which, if you add in other “white” migrant groups, brings you close BS Fairman’s estimate of 77 per cent: albeit the numbers are now decreasing quite steadily.
The Census data is a bit confusing. Around 50 per cent of the population identifies “English, Scottish or Irish” as one of their two main ancestries. But the Census allows people to identify an “Australian” ancestry, and around 30 per cent of respondents made this identification: and I think it is reasonable to assume that significantly more than half of these are descendants of people from the British Isles.
English, Scottish or Irish ancestries. A further figure to throw into this mixture is that two-thirds of respondents only identified one ancestry. It’s difficult to work out exactly what this adds up to but, unless we assume that almost all of the people identifying as having an “Australian” ancestry are non-Anglo, then significantly more than 50 per cent of the population can still be designated as “Anglo-Celtic.”
In short, there are still a lot of whitefellas in Australia. And, let’s face it, Anglo culture still predominates here: The British monarch is our head of state. English is pretty much the only language used in business and government. Only a handful of schools and even fewer tertiary instutitions use languages other than English as a mode of instruction. Kids in our education system are still taught the works of Shakespeare (although I’m not sure for how much longer). Most cultural products (books, movies, theatre, websites, etc.) are in English. Most of our political leaders and celebrities are Anglo.
The situation is changing, and is likely to be quite different in 2123 (apart from the prevalence of the English language, which I doubt is going away any time) but, for now, I reckon that the extent of our multiculturalism is frequently overstated.
It remains true that it is harder, but not impossible, to sell hope than fear.
Harder still when the hope you’re offering is a better way to find a better way to address systemic policy failures and institutionalised racism.
Of course as soon as the National party decided to concede to its greater demons it made the campaign for a greater future more difficult, as did the later declaration by the more duplicitous Liberal party.
There is nothing clever about the no campaign, it is as basic as they come. It is run by people who see only another skirmish in their politics as blood sport, without a care as to whose blood it is that will continue to spill.
They are people who only ever asked whether they could defeat it, not whether they should, which is why we’ve seen Dutton’s ‘second coming’ of the referendum.
The no campaign is lazy, reactionary and, at its core, racist.
You may not be a racist if you vote no, but that’s the company you’re keeping. If reading or hearing that hardens your determination to vote no, I encourage you to explore why.
People in this country have been treated unequally for hundreds of years. The things we’ve tried to overcome the resulting entrenched inequality aren’t working quickly enough. Unlike racism, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander voices trying to make change are not institutionalised strongly enough.
They engaged with a process established by the government that operates those institutions and made pragmatic recommendations drawn from lived experience, recommendations filled with what hope they could muster given that experience and context.
I encourage you to bravely embrace uncertain hope rather than acquiesce to fear and consign us to a certain status quo.
ItzaDreamsays:
Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:51 am
Mexicanbeemer @ #50 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:37 am
ItzaDreamsays:
We are at cross purposes I think.
————–
The yes campaign might not realise its doing it but when yes supporters say they are asking white men just what message is that sending to the millions of Australians that are not.
Our thought lines are still not intersecting I think. My point was that in Australia (multicultural, modern, call it what you like) it is still counterintuitive for non-indigenous people (I used the generic ‘White Man’ expression) to listen to First Peoples (I used the generic ‘Black Man’). And I suggested that that is the background frequency / resonance behind why the Voice Yes vote is tanking.
——————
The yes campaign hasn’t pushed hard enough on the problem with the status quo.
Mundo – Fooled them how? Did they promise sunshine and lollypops if they voted no? Unlike the Republic referendum, the left flank in this referendum is not very large (that is those who feel it doesn’t go far enough and therefore should be voted down).
Even if the Liberals had been on board there would have be dissenting voices from within the party running a No campaign. That alone probably would have sunk the proposal via failing to get a majority of states.
The reality is even referendums that have had bipartisan support have gone down. In 1977, the Simultaneous Elections referendum had bipartisan support of the two major parties and was only opposed by some loud voices from the Senate. It was sunk by losing in 3 states.
Likewise, in 1967, the Nexus referendum had support of the political parties with dissent from a handful of senators and the DLP and was sunk in 5 states.
The only way the Voice was going to get up was to sell it in all its details and sell it extremely well. The early 65% polling results clearly contained a lot of soft “yes” that has departed since the debate began. Instead that 65% was seen as almost locked in and just needed to be reinforced which has proved fatal.
Rewi @ 10.00am
Thanks for your good summation and thoughts. I agree.
mundo @ #53 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:47 am
That could be the new textbook definition of pyrrhic victory.
mundo @ 9.52am,
Certainly the “yes” campaign is having a problem.
I not sure billboards and advertising will work if you state the obvious.
“Stop being a racist knob!”
Many years ago an advertising guru from a major corporation said of a campaign to improve “the lot” of Indigenous Australians that it would almost certainly have the opposite effect to that which was intended.
That is happening.
A campaign to attribute the “no” campaign to the main protagonists to the “no’campaign is needed.
It needs to be personal, rough, rude, blaming, hurtful, politically disadvantaging and loud.
It probably needs to be racist!
The”no” campaign belongs to the LNP, Dutton, Joyce, Abbott, Howard, Bishop, Latham. Hanson, Palmer, Gina, a host of wannabes from the media and a racist Australia.
The plight of Indigenous Australia belongs to the same people. The future of the Indigenous Australians belongs to the same people.
The “no’ people and any doubters need to be told that their “no’ campaign comes with responsibilities.
The “no’ campaign are a ‘blight on the plight’.
It’s bad when all that seems to be a chance is called a miracle.
Just look at some of justifying, self serving racists flogs on this site!
Team Katich @ #41 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:23 am
Indeed this is a sport in its terminal gasps.
England 27 (6 penalties 3 drop goals) bt Argentina 10 (1 try, 1 conversion 1 penalty)
Spiffing game, old chap. Huzzah!
BS Fairman
Read the fact-checked No pamphlet.
That’s what I mean by fooled.
As a kicking 5/8 whose last game ended in tears for my team mates when I missed four penalties and a drop kick I could have farted over, I like seeing a mix of open stuff and forward grind.
On the referendum
Tasmania is where the only liberal party government is in Australia and going against the trend of the federal lib/nats of No
Jeremy C Browne @ #37 Monday, September 11th, 2023 – 9:19 am
What an odd interpretation of history – one that is disrespectful of Bonner
The Russian occupiers who have been trying to conduct sham ‘elections’ in illegally occupied Ukraine are finding out first-hand what the locals think about being forcibly swallowed into ‘Russkiy Mir’:
“Russia’s attempts to hold sham elections in occupied areas of Ukraine have been impeded by protests, kamikaze drones, and the “liquidation” of collaborators, Kyiv Post has been told.
Russian occupying authorities between Sept. 7 and Sept. 10 are holding pseudo-elections across the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine. Ballots are being held in parts of the Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions, as well as in temporarily occupied Crimea.
According to British intelligence, the Russian ruling party, United Russia, is set to receive a clear majority, with Kremlin polls projecting at least an 80 percent of the vote. Despite more than 1,000 candidates, there are not enough qualified, experienced and independent representatives who are not members of pro-Kremlin parties.
One of the more dramatic attempts to disrupt the vote was an operation by Ukraine’s Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), which saw two drones – in the words of the SBU – “vote” at a polling station in Zaporizhzhia by blowing it up.
“Elections here ended prematurely,” an SBU source told Kyiv Post. “After the explosions, the occupiers got nervous — they surrounded the nearby streets, started checking people, and launched their drones in the air.
“This is another warning to the occupiers and collaborators that Ukrainian land will literally burn under their feet.”
https://www.kyivpost.com/storage/video/2023/09/10/ff69e0ce9a65f9a9099a66936ce53743.mp4
On the ground, residents of the occupied territories have shown considerable resistance to the pseudo-elections and are attempting to disrupt proceedings for the Russians, according to Kyiv officials.
A spokesperson for the National Resistance Center (NRC), who identifies himself only as Ostap, told Kyiv Post that large scale protests are taking place and that the elections are being ignored by the local population.
“Of course, there is a percentage of people who have been waiting for this – this [so-called] ‘Russian peace,’ and they do not care what burns or does not burn there, but the majority of Ukrainians are resisting and helping the defense forces,” Ostap said.
Ukrainian resistance ranges from putting up leaflets calling for locals to ignore the elections, to passing on information about all those involved in the elections to the Main Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine (HUR).
Andriy Yusov, a representative of the HUR, has confirmed that supplied information about collaborators is now being worked on.
“Some of the names of collaborators and traitors, as well as the invaders involved in the organization of these pseudo-elections, have been established, and some have already been liquidated. Further work is underway,” Yusov explained.
He added that the work of locals is “greatly helping the Ukrainian security and defense forces.””
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/21461
The IRA got nothing on Ukrainian partisans striving to expel the Russian invaders from their midst. 🙂
Maybe the likes of Lula, Orban, Ramaswamy, Trump or Sarkozy would like to visit these Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories, to explain to the locals how they would really be much better off bowing to their new masters from Moscow. I wonder what odds I’d get on them getting back out again unscathed? 😆
“I think perhaps the only good thing which might come from the certain referendum defeat could be that once the analysis-of-what-went-wrong-rubber hits the road a lot of no voters are going to discover how Dutton and Co fooled them and many will feel duped.”
Yeah, just like they did with Howard and Turnbull and Abbott and Morrison right? Oh wait, they re-elected them for decades and helped wreck the country.
As much as I hate the drop kicks being 3 points in Rugby (England kicked when they had the ball 5 yards from the tryline, pathetic), I can appreciate the effort & time they spend on actually getting them right. It infuriates me watching League in close games where teams who want to take a point are obviously completely inept at setting up for it for 6 tackles, and usually follow it with a terribly taken drop goal attempt.
No screeners off the edge to stop the ruck markers getting close, dumb plays that move the ball wide during the set, not trying to get 10 yards out, not having the kicker setup in enough distance to avoid any charge-downs and dummy halves who aren’t used to delivering the 15 to 20 yard pass back when someone does setup deep..
The Perun youtube channel has put up a new video on defence procurement. This one explains exactly how AUKUS evolved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XxySdqU1Xg
An interesting thought just occurred to me. The recent focus on the ‘youth crime wave’ in Queensland, by the Murdoch media, with its emphasis on Indigenous Youth, seems to have magically coincided with the Voice referendum. Strange that. 😐
bob @ Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:31 am:
“… not having the kicker setup in enough distance to avoid any charge-downs …”
===================
The two ‘best’ field goal attempts by the Raiders last night were both charged down by the Knights.
The Shayne Montgomery is an interesting case that highlights the need for “moiety” rather than genetic descent. After all, who are we to determine for the many and varied First Nations who or who not is a member of their population.
It is not as if people without a genetic descent have not become accepted as part of a First Nations community.
There is the famous historical example of William Buckley, who was adopted into the Wallarranga people and whose name itself has become an idiomatic Australian saying. Others would include James Morrill who was accepted into the Biri Gubba people, and Narcisse Pelletier who joined the Uutaalnganu.
All of these people, of European genetic descent, became First Nations people. As a contemporary example that is perhaps even more tragic, Thomas Mayo whose father, despite being of Dayak ancestry, found himself born and placed under the Aboriginals Preservation and Protection Act 1939 (Qld).
Ultimately it is the self-determination of cultures who have the capability to determine who is a First Nations person.
Some very perceptive points are made in this short essay. Of course the same thing applies here as the Coalition ape their brothers-in-arms in the Republican Party and MAGA Reactionary Conservative Hard Right:
Who Are The Bad Guys?
I want to contrast Palin’s semi-heroic portrait of the MAGA movement with some of the other hard right responses to Tarrio’s sentence.
Michael Knowles opened his Wednesday show with a monologue about the injustice of the sentence. And he was happy to offer up just the sort of people compared to whom Tarrio is hardly a criminal at all.
Knowles:
‘The average sentence for rape in the United States is less than 15 years, meaning that Tarrio faces 50 percent more jail time than the average rapist. But really, he probably faces more than that. Because, while right-wingers have had the book thrown at them in recent years, most non-political prisoners don’t spend anywhere near their full sentence behind bars. Do you know the average time served by convicted human traffickers here in the United States? Less than 10-and-a-half years. How about the time served on average by child traffickers? Sixteen years. How about the average time served by murderers in the good ol’ U-S-of-A? Just 17-and-a-half years. But the guy who ran the right-wing drinking club is getting 22 years for sending politically incorrect texts and social media posts. Is texting out protest messages from a hotel room really worse than rape, human trafficking, child trafficking, and murder? Objectively, no. But subjectively, from the perspective of a regime that is struggling to maintain legitimacy among a public that on both sides … trusts the system less and less each year, yes, it’s much worse. And our rulers are going to make sure that it is punished accordingly.’
Matt Walsh made the same basic argument, also tweeting out a story about a “serial child rapist” receiving a comparatively light sentence. Rape, child abuse, and human trafficking are reprehensible crimes, and it’s a perfectly legitimate thing to argue for heavy sentences for the perpetrators and for better prevention strategies.
But that’s not really what’s at play here. Hard right nationalism is frequently obsessed with purity and innocence, and it’s fully in step with the extremist views that Knowles, Walsh, and others like them promote to inject their attempts to obscure the significance of January 6 and Tarrio’s involvement with reminders that too many such deviants are now walking free.
This is because Knowles, Walsh, and many other far right commentators have spent years labeling LGBTQ people as predators and rapists and alleging all manner of complicity in child trafficking and abuse by liberally-inclined Americans. Tarrio’s sentence is excessive, their argument goes, and it’s particularly heinous when we focus on the sexual and predatory crimes being committed across the country—crimes both hosts consistently link to the LGBTQ community and the liberal establishment writ large.
It’s the Biden administration—a struggling and illegitimate regime, mind you!—that overlooks human trafficking and a porous border. It’s liberals who are indifferent to if not complicit in the trafficking of children. And it’s gay and trans people we should see as lurking sexual predators, rapists, and “groomers.” These are the criminals we are failing to punish while perfectly normal Americans are sentenced to years in prison for an insurrection that didn’t really happen anyway. The record here is extensive.
Walsh has suggested trans rights advocates support pedophilia and has said that a “child who is put on hormones and who has their body being mutilated is being sexually violated in a way that is just as depraved or damaging as molestation or rape.” As for his stance on harsh sentencing, Walsh has posted admiringly about other countries’ use of the death penalty to manage drug dealers.
When it comes to chastening trans and LGBTQ people, Knowles has said “the law is a teacher.” He has also argued it would be chastening for society to bring back public executions. And while he refrained from calling for their execution, Knowles declared earlier this year that “transgenderism” needs to be “eradicated.” In response to criticism of the film The Sound of Freedom, Knowles said, “I’ve always been skeptical of the notion that the liberal media are full of pedos, until I saw the mad vitriol with which the media have been attacking Jim Caviezel’s new movie about child sex trafficking, The Sound of Freedom.” Knowles is merely a tireless warrior for victims of sexual violence, no matter the context. I’d be remiss if I didn’t note Knowles’s well-documented attacks on the notion that such a thing as campus rape culture exists.
There’s a two-step here of downplaying the reality of what January 6 was while reminding their audiences that much worthier recipients of the application of state force exist. When Sarah Palin asks what’s the point of being a good guy anymore, she’s stating unequivocally that being on the side of Trump and MAGA—even when it comes to the insurrection—puts you on the side of the righteous. So when Knowles and Walsh disparagingly compare Tarrio’s treatment at the hands of the criminal justice system to that of sexual predators and child abusers—criminal categories in which the two men have regularly placed queer, trans, and politically progressive Americans—there’s little room for doubt that the people they would like to see locked up and punished are not restricted to the traditional legal definitions of those crimes.
For these figures, legal actions against Tarrio and the other January 6 defendants are illegitimate. They are illegitimate both because the Biden “regime” has no legitimacy and because, in Knowles’s view, the prosecutions themselves are a showy attempt to claim that legitimacy through force.
Extremist nationalism is of course defined by all of these tropes: heroic narratives, obsessions with purity and deviance, and, when challenging the government of the day, a sense that some other set of forces and actors are thwarting the national will. But January 6 wasn’t merely a series of low-level infractions and political thought crimes. It was a real, violent event that left multiple people dead, threatened the democratic transfer of power, and was at least partially planned by men like Enrique Tarrio. In this case, he’s the bad guy. Duh.
Alan Elrod
President & CEO, The Pulaski Institution. Columnist, Arc Digital. Working at the intersection of heartland areas and global politics.
There’ll be plenty of Teal NO voters, so I think that’s irrelevant to a general election vote.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken pledged an additional $1 billion in assistance to Ukraine on Wednesday during a visit to Kyiv. The pledge comes amid concerns that Ukraine’s military has made only incremental gains against entrenched Russian forces. Still, the top U.S. diplomat said a battlefield update from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky afforded him “tremendous confidence that Ukraine will prevail.”
Not giving up just yet, but if Yes does fail to get up, there will be plenty of recriminations to go around. No party to the debate, and in particular no political party, will be immune.
In war, Truth is always the first casualty. In a debate that should have been primarily about Truth, allowing this to be sidelined by those who thought Voice would be an easier win without it was a potentially fatal blunder.
When did school curricula first start properly addressing indigenous dispossession? I spent a fair chunk of yesterday banging my head against entrenched views about ‘all we’ve done for them [sic]’ and ‘how much more do they want from us [sic]’, as explanations for ‘no’ votes. These were all over-65’s (the most vocal was an 85yo). They were very hard to budge from ‘facts’ about British colonial actions towards indigenous Australians they believed from their school days.
I was put in mind of Pope Francis’ ‘justification’ for his offensive glorification of Russian imperialist culture to those Russian youths the other week, when he reached for the old ‘this popped into my head because I remember learning about it at school’. This indicated to me that he ultimately trusted what he was taught at school about Russian imperial history more than he trusted views articulated since – which he probably dismissed as spurious ‘revisionism’.
I wonder if a similar psychological dynamic has inhibited older voters in this referendum from ever having really accepted the full extent of indigenous Australian dispossession and disadvantage at the hands of the British colonisers of this land. They learned what they learned at school, and now it is a very hard task to fully disabuse them of their mistaken assumptions about the true state of indigenous Australia’s relationship with its non-indigenous colonisers.
The take I have from this is that proper reconciliation will remain off at the end of the rainbow unless a lot more work is done to correct historical misconceptions which whitewash our treatment of indigenous Australians. Or, maybe there are those for which this is simply too late, and it will take the demographic balance in this country to shift much more decisively away from those who were taught a much more hagiographic account of those British colonisers in Australia.
Enough Alreadysays:
Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:31 pm
When did school curricula first start properly addressing indigenous dispossession? I spent a fair chunk of yesterday banging my head against entrenched views about ‘all we’ve done for them [sic]’ and ‘how much more do they want from us [sic]’, as explanations for ‘no’ votes. These were all over-65’s (the most vocal was an 85yo). They were very hard to budge from ‘facts’ about British colonial actions towards indigenous Australians they believed from their school days.
————–
This is where the yes campaign is failing because it should say yep the current system does so much it is failing so time to do something different. The yes campaign has not been using the no campaign’s own words.
The most common argument I’ve heard from ‘no’ voters I’ve been close enough to listen to is “Why should they be treated better than the rest of us?”
They see the “Are you of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent” box as a means of preferential treatment and a couple of them even suggested that I tick it when I’m applying for jobs and see how fast I get called in for an interview then, which thankfully they don’t after I told them not to bring that up again, so we don’t talk about this referendum anymore, I don’t think there’s anything I can say to convince them.
They might not think that indigenous people are inferior, but they definitely do think that indigenous people should not be treated better than them.
B.S. Fairman at 10.07 am and Mundo at 10.44 am
Here is the fact-checked version of the No pamphlet, i.e. the full version of what Itza got in P.O. Box:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2023/jul/20/the-vote-no-pamphlet-referendum-voice-to-parliament-voting-essay-aec-published-read-in-full-annotated-fact-checked
Here is Amy Remeikis commenting upon only the previous week of fakery from leading No pollies:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/11/yes-campaign-hopes-to-reignite-momentum-for-voice-with-nationwide-events-and-advertising-blitz
Need to click on the video using arrow pointing towards the photo of Amy.
Cat at 7.57 am
Yes, please, you and everybody else concerned for the integrity of Australia (including the integrity of the Australian Electoral Commission, if some people have a horizon so narrow they cannot see other major problems being caused by the No campaign), it’s now time to step up the campaign for Yes, but don’t dismiss Dr Kevin Bonham with a fake putdown such as “beard-stroking analysis”. Dr Bonham had no beard over 5 years ago; perhaps he lacks one now (speaking descriptively, not normatively). See:
https://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/5247327/tasmanian-election-analyst-dr-kevin-bonham-talks-about-elections-snails-and-chess/
Arky at 8.21 am
You said, apparently not flippantly, that “perception is reality”. Rubbish. Putin proved it in Ukraine.
I actually agree with Rex about something, hold the phones.
@Rex: “There’ll be plenty of Teal NO voters, so I think that’s irrelevant to a general election vote.”
I agree. The thing that splits the Teal voters off the mainstream Liberal Party is primarily climate change. There’s a bit of social policy in there too and integrity concerns etc but the big one is climate change.
Dutton’s not going to win back most Teal voters but the Voice is a minor factor at best in that.
@Dr Doolittle: That argument went over my head I’m afraid. I’m not sure what aspect of Putin and Ukraine you are referring to.
What I’m saying is that Australian voters on the whole perceive Indigenous voters as being heavily divided themselves on whether they even want the Voice, and that is powering the No vote regardless of whether it is the truth or not. The perception matters far more than the reality.
Anyone here should be able to rattle off a dozen or more examples from Auspol of similar situations where the perception mattered more than the truth.
Today’s the 50th anniversary of the brutal coup in Chile:
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/10/1193755188/chile-coup-50-years-pinochet-kissinger-human-rights-allende
Two years later we had our own coup albeit bloodless.
The Greens have called a press conference for just ahead of question time to talk housing.
Sky News is reporting the party has struck a deal with the government
Semantics alert:
Teal No voters are I assume No voters in teal seats. The stats on people who actually voted for Teals, and who intend to vote No would be interesting.
[‘Kissinger’s office did not respond to NPR’s requests for an interview.’]
I can’t think why. He should’ve got life!
Arky I think you could risk it and say perception (in the abstract sense you are using it) nearly always, if not always, overrides truth. It is the truth of the perceiver.
Has Labor capitulated to Max Chandler-Mather on Housing in the wake of the latest polling …?
BK says:
Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:27 pm
The Greens have called a press conference for just ahead of question time to talk housing.
Sky News is reporting the party has struck a deal with the government
———————————————–
Another disappointment for the lib/nats propaganda media units narrative that the government failed in its housing policy
Scott
Whatever Labor do these Liberal plonkers will oppose it.
I seriously doubt that the referendum will be a major issue for the vast majority of voters by the time the next election comes around. Although for some, it will give them another reason to dislike right wing politicians, it is probably not going to be the only reason not to vote for them.
There are going to be very few voters who are like “I like Dutton and the LNP because they are upping coal and gas exports plus the tax cuts for the rich, but I really wanted “the Voice” to get up, so I just can’t vote for them”.
Labor throws an extra $1B on public housing on top of the other topups. Greens will now support the HAFF bill.
steve davis says:
Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:43 pm
Scott
Whatever Labor do these Liberal plonkers will oppose it.
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Yes