YouGov: 51-49 to Labor (open thread)

Labor keeps its nose in front on two-party preferred in the final YouGov poll for the year, but the good news for them ends there.

The final poll of the year from YouGov, which will return next year as a regular three-weekly series, finds Labor with a steady 51-49 lead on two-party preferred based on preference flows from the previous election, despite recording their lowest primary vote of any poll since the election. Labor is down two points on the last poll to 29%, their day saved to some extent by a two point rise for the Greens to 15%. The Coalition is up one to 37%, while One Nation is steady on 7%. Anthony Albanese is down four on approval to 39% and up five on disapproval to 55%, while Peter Dutton is down one to 39% and up one to 48%. Albanese’s lead as preferred prime minister is in from 48-34 to 46-36. The poll was conducted Friday to Tuesday from a sample of 1555.

I have recently started adding YouGov and RedBridge Group polling to the BludgerTrack poll aggregate, which doesn’t seem to have caught all the way up with the recent slide in Labor’s fortunes. In the case of the earlier three YouGov polls (though not yet the latest one), the poll data feature incorporates an array of unpublished breakdowns by state and various demographic indicators.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

1,684 comments on “YouGov: 51-49 to Labor (open thread)”

Comments Page 20 of 34
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  1. Oliver Sutton,
    That’s the exact song I was obliquely referring to! Maybe I should take a Bluetooth speaker and blast it out the window while I’m there? Though I would like to come home again. 😉

  2. With the new leadership in NZ starting on their undoing of Labour’s progressive legislation , I hope they don’t regress to the Muldoon days.
    I watched “Uproar “, a heartwarming Kiwi movie about how the upcoming South African Rugby tour split the normally peaceful population , and how it affected those who protested , especially the Maori.
    I left NZ at the end of 1980 when things were getting heated but seeing real footage of the police brutality shocked me.
    So glad this didn’t happen here with the recent referendum.
    Highly recommend this film from Dunedin…it’s a wonderful feel-good movie , funny, moving, and the cast just superb. The best I’ve seen in a long time.
    Shame it doesn’t get the publicity it deserves.

  3. And if you see a little Aussie old lady on the TV who bought a gun in WalMart and used it to shoot up all the Trump yard signs in the Red States, you know who it’ll be. 😉

  4. C@t: “I’ll be observing them in all their full-blown, gun-totin’, god-fearin’, Fox-watchin’ glory.”

    A road trip across America, just like Easy Rider.

    Except in the opposite direction.

    And across the north, not the south.

    So, not exactly like Easy Rider …

  5. Police investigated an allegation that Alan Jones indecently assaulted a schoolboy at the broadcaster’s sprawling Southern Highlands estate, directly contradicting a claim by the NSW police commissioner that no complaints have been received.

    The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age have received new allegations of indecent assaults following revelations last week that the high-profile radio host had groped multiple young men during his controversial career. Jones denies all the claims – including the most recent allegation uncovered by this masthead – and has threatened legal action.

    However, the Herald and The Age can reveal that in November 2017, two specialist detectives met schoolboy Neil Ogden and his principal at his high school in Wollongong, south of Sydney. This masthead has given Neil and his mother, Jenny, pseudonyms to protect their identities.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/schoolboy-went-to-police-over-alan-jones-indecent-assault-allegation-20231210-p5eqe3.html

  6. ‘I watched “Uproar “, a heartwarming Kiwi movie about how the upcoming South African Rugby tour split the normally peaceful population , and how it affected those who protested , especially the Maori.’

    Thanks for the heads-up, Quasar.

    With rugby [union] being more a niche sport on this side of the Tasman, the 1971 Springbok tour didn’t have quite the same dislocating impact here. But for those of us there at the time, the memories run deep.

    In Queensland, Joh proclaimed a state of emergency … to protect a football match. He brought in hundreds of country coppers to boost the ranks lined up outside the team’s motel, the Tower Mill.

    On the pretext of a window broken by a thrown rock (several stories up: there must have been an Olympic shotputter amongst the protesters), the police charged without warning, and laid in to the demonstrators in the darkness of Wickham Park.

    Some outran the strong arm of the law. (One of them may have been me …)

    Others weren’t so quick. An 18 year old law student ran for the sanctuary of nearby Trades Hall, but gallantly waited at the door to let a woman enter first. He was crash-tackled and arrested for resisting arrest.

    The trumped-up charges were later dropped, and the student went on with his career. He had the last laugh when, during his 9-year term as Premier of Queensland, he presided at Joh’s funeral.

  7. SMH, per Confessions:

    “… directly contradicting a claim by the NSW police commissioner that no complaints have been received.”

    I’m shocked, I tell you: shocked!

  8. I’ve told the story before about how my late husband had his nose smeared across his face by the NSW Police when he was demonstrating against the Vietnam War. And then they charged HIM with assault!
    Unlucky for the NSW Police they picked the wrong guy to try that on with. His family had connections, so he was able to be represented in court by one of the best QCs at the time. Who got the charges dropped. Something that was as rare as hen’s teeth at the time.

  9. Oliver Sutton,
    Really appreciate your post…seems Joh and Piggy Muldoon were cut from the same cloth.
    Am embarrassed to admit that my first years in Oz were all about settling my kids into schools, finding a decent job, etc…and politics took a back seat.

  10. michaelsays:
    Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:53 pm
    Those pictures bring back memories of the first move I saw in the cinema – Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
    _____________________
    Reminded me of Duel with the psycho truck driver.
    Probably best to leave the driving to your son C@t.

  11. Musk has broken twitter& will lose his $44B…

    The social media platform X will reinstate the account of the US conspiracy theorist Alex Jones after a poll of the site’s users backed his return, its owner, Elon Musk, has said.

    “The people have spoken and so it shall be,” Musk posted in reply to a poll on Saturday on whether to reinstate the Jones account. Close to 2m votes were cast by the time the poll closed, with about 70% voting in favour of Jones’s return.

    Naturally the poll would vote to reinstate Jones.. X is now only populated by Trump xenophobics

  12. FUBAR @12:51. ”It wasn’t that long ago that Antarctic sea ice was at record levels and we were being told that was also caused by humans.”

    1. When?
    2. Citation needed.

  13. No need to be embarrassed, Quasar.

    After my student years in the 1970s, I too entered the married-with-children phase in the 1980s.

    (In fact, I’m still married-with-children. But now our children have children. Life goes on, ob-la-di, ob-la-da.)

  14. Another Liberal Party rort, gifting party hacks AAT positions, is being eliminated…

    The Albanese government has introduced legislation to abolish the Administrative Appeals Tribunal and set up a new review body, almost one year after it first announced plans to axe the tribunal.

    Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus announced last December that his government would replace the AAT, following years of allegations that the Coalition had stacked the tribunal with political connections, some without relevant work experience.

    Under the proposed laws, the new review body would require members be appointed via a transparent merit-based process, and provide a new guidance and appeals panel to identify and escalate systemic issues raised in the tribunal.

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8451539/albanese-government-introduces-legislation-to-replace-administrative-appeals-tribunal/?cs=14350

  15. ‘Player One says:
    Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 9:53 pm

    Kirsdarke @ #905 Sunday, December 10th, 2023 – 9:22 pm

    And on the subject of climate change, this sure is ominous. Both the Arctic and Antarctic are below previously record low polar sea ice coverage for this time of year, with the record low Antarctic ice coverage set only last year.

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Clearly, all that Tourism is the problem.’
    ———————–
    Not THE problem, of course. Only 8% of it.

  16. Good morning Dawn Patrollers.

    Australia’s net migration will be halved within two years in a dramatic move to slash the annual intake from a record high of 510,000 by imposing tougher tests on overseas students and turning away workers with low skills. David Crowe takes us through the new migration strategy which will demand students pass a stronger English-language test and will require them to prove they are genuine students before they enter the country, while making it harder for them to stay if they do not find jobs that help fix the nation’s skills shortages.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australia-s-migrant-intake-blew-out-to-510-000-students-are-central-to-the-plan-to-halve-that-20231210-p5eqcg.html
    “We are a great country, with a broken migration system”, says Clare O’Neill in this op-ed for The Australian.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/we-are-a-great-country-with-a-broken-migration-system/news-story/8731bf70367829d1800beea1afcd5112?amp=
    The migration strategy won’t silence Dutton, but Labor is backing away from the feared Big Australia, writes Paul Karp who says the Albanese government is reducing migrant intake as it seeks to make inroads to easing the population and housing squeeze before the next election.
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/dec/11/the-migration-strategy-wont-silence-dutton-but-labor-is-backing-away-from-the-feared-big-australia
    The Albanese government has been nervous about seeming “too Labor”, but a strong theme of fairness is emerging in its agenda – and not too soon, writes Sean Kelly who says that the recent big-ticket pieces of legislation and announcement are part of the government’s economic strategy. But second, and more interestingly, they point to a shift in the economic debate, with increasing priority placed on economics as a question of fairness.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/labor-has-been-uncomfortable-in-its-own-skin-in-2024-will-it-dare-play-to-its-strengths-20231208-p5eq6v.html
    The SMH editorial says that in the face of support falling for Australia’s migrant intake, the Albanese government’s reforms will have to tread delicately between assuaging public concerns and ensuring migrants continue to be a major economic asset. It does make the point that conflating the issue of detention with fears about immigration risks long-term economic damage.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/reform-the-migration-system-but-do-not-demonise-the-new-arrivals-20231210-p5eqcl.html
    After the farce over the release of 148 permanent detainees by the High Court, we must sadly conclude that the Labor Party is still traumatised by the Tampa nightmare of 2001. Actually, it’s not just refugees that have given Labor political PTSD – it’s housing, taxes and climate change as well, writes Alan Kohler. He says that after the High Court decision the Opposition and much of the media then went hysterical, or rather performed hysteria, each for their own reasons.
    https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/opinion/2023/12/11/labors-political-ptsd
    Australia has one of the weakest tax systems for redistribution among industrial nations – the Stage 3 tax cuts will make it worse, argues Jim Stafford.
    https://theconversation.com/australia-has-one-of-the-weakest-tax-systems-for-redistribution-among-industrial-nations-the-stage-3-tax-cuts-will-make-it-worse-217820
    From Dubai, Adam Morton reports that Chris Bowen, has told nearly 200 countries at the Cop28 summit that the use of fossil fuels in energy production must end. This came as the president of the Cop, Sultan Al Jaber, convened a majlis – a meeting in the traditional form of an elders’ conference in the United Arab Emirates – between all countries late on Sunday in an attempt to reach consensus on points of deadlock, including whether fossil fuels should be phased out or phased down.
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/dec/11/chris-bowen-tells-cop28-to-end-the-use-of-fossil-fuels-in-energy-production-as-talks-try-to-break-deadlock
    In contrast, a Coalition government would sign a pledge to triple nuclear energy output when attending its first COP global climate talks after being re-elected, and overturn the Australian nuclear energy moratorium, opposition climate change and energy spokesman Ted O’Brien promised during a session at the world climate talks in Dubai on Saturday, reports Nick O’Malley. Surely this gives a green light to constantly probe them for details that can support it as a practical and confident plan.
    https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/coalition-mp-talks-up-triple-nuclear-option-at-cop28-20231210-p5eqeu.html
    Higher interest rates are hitting the federal budget as well as household spending, and are forecast to cost the government an extra $80 billion over 11 years in larger interest repayments on debt bills. Rachel Clun explains how borrowing costs will overtake the NDIS as the fastest-growing area of federal government spending, according to figures from the mid-year budget update, even as gross Commonwealth debt is projected to be lower than forecast in the May budget.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/the-government-s-budget-has-the-same-problem-as-yours-interest-rates-20231210-p5eqce.html
    Since colonial times Australia has been an incarceration nation where lock ’em up is preferred to rehabilitation, writes Julianne Shultz who says the fearful reaction to the high court decision that people cannot be held in indefinite detention is a classic example.
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/commentisfree/2023/dec/10/since-colonial-times-australia-has-been-an-incarceration-nation-where-lock-em-up-is-preferred-to-rehabilitation
    Annastacia Palaszczuk’s success in Queensland is a template for Anthony Albanese to increase his majority – because that’s exactly what she did, opines David Crowe.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/labor-has-a-queensland-problem-albanese-needs-to-study-palaszczuk-s-playbook-20231210-p5eqea.html
    “With Annastacia Palaszczuk gone, can Labor achieve the unachievable in Queensland?”, asks Paul Williams.
    https://theconversation.com/with-annastacia-palaszczuk-gone-can-labor-achieve-the-unachievable-in-queensland-219573
    The big four accounting firms will be hit with penalties of up to $782.5 million for breaching the tax agent code of professional conduct under an overhaul proposed by the government in response to the PwC tax scandal, explains Ronald Mizen. These fines could be career-ending for some of the partners, he says.
    https://www.afr.com/companies/professional-services/big-four-face-782-5m-penalties-for-future-breaches-after-pwc-scandal-20231210-p5eqcm
    The extent to which Labor’s new Securing Faith-Based Places program is properly geared to addressing religious intolerance remains to be seen, reports Belinda Jones.
    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/funding-for-religious-organisations-favours-those-in-labor-held-seats,18162
    Australia’s insurance giants are warning premium costs will spiral beyond the reach of more households unless some homes are relocated from high-risk areas and planning laws are improved to better consider natural disasters. Insurance Australia Group (IAG), Suncorp and QBE have put the spotlight on rising premiums and point to locations like Wilberforce, Emu Plains and Warwick Farm in Sydney’s basin where planning controls fail to deal with unacceptable residual flood risk.
    https://www.theage.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/black-hole-insurers-warn-of-unaffordable-premiums-home-risks-20231207-p5epvh.html
    Kate McClymont reports that police investigated an allegation that Alan Jones indecently assaulted a schoolboy at the broadcaster’s sprawling Southern Highlands estate, directly contradicting a claim by the NSW police commissioner that no complaints have been received. Will the SMH be drip feeding stuff about Jone like this for a while?
    https://www.theage.com.au/national/schoolboy-went-to-police-over-alan-jones-indecent-assault-allegation-20231210-p5eqe3.html
    Nick McKenzie tells us how the Lehrmann case brings home the risks of suing for a court victory. (The just released Stan documentary on the Roberts-Smith story is well worth watching).
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/lehrmann-case-brings-home-the-risks-of-suing-for-a-court-victory-20231207-p5epvp.html
    “Israel is increasingly portrayed as the villain. Some perspective, please”, writes George Brandis.
    https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/israel-is-increasingly-portrayed-as-the-villain-some-perspective-please-20231208-p5eq6w.html
    Donald Trump has tested the contours of his gag order in the federal criminal case over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, assailing his former attorney general and potential trial witness William Barr in remarks at a Saturday night New York gala event. “I make this commitment to you tonight: we will not have Bill Barr as our attorney general, is that OK?” Trump said as he discussed a potential second presidency. “He was a coward. He was afraid of being impeached.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/10/trump-tests-federal-gag-order

    Cartoon Corner

    Glen Le Lievre

    Megan Herbert

    Jim Pavlidis

    Peter Broelman

    Spooner

    From the US



    .webp





  17. ROP so-called lawmakers still really want to impose abortion and make it criminal if any women wants to have abortion.

    AP
    Missouri lawmakers propose allowing homicide charges for women who have abortions

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/12/10/2210506/-Missouri-lawmakers-propose-allowing-homicide-charges-for-women-who-have-abortions?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=top_news_slot_6&pm_medium=web

    “Some Missouri lawmakers are renewing a call for the state to take an anti-abortion step that goes further than prominent anti-abortion groups want to go and that has not gained much traction in any state so far: a law that would allow homicide charges against women who obtain abortions.

    Republicans in both the state House and Senate have introduced bills to be considered in the legislative session that begins next month to apply homicide laws on behalf of a victim who is an “unborn child at every stage of development.””

  18. Thank you, BK.

    ‘After the farce over the release of 148 permanent detainees by the High Court, we must sadly conclude that the Labor Party is still traumatised by the Tampa nightmare of 2001. Actually, it’s not just refugees that have given Labor political PTSD – it’s housing, taxes and climate change as well, writes Alan Kohler. He says that after the High Court decision the Opposition and much of the media then went hysterical, or rather performed hysteria, each for their own reasons.
    https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/opinion/2023/12/11/labors-political-ptsd
    ————————————
    Decades in opposition will do that for you.

  19. “Chris Bowen, has told nearly 200 countries at the Cop28 summit that the use of fossil fuels in energy production must end.”

    Brace for backlash from the marshalled Murdoch megaphones.

  20. This post won’t please many PBers.

    But FUBAR is correct about Antarctic sea ice. It was at record levels less than a decade ago, and, while the general scientific consensus was one of continuing uncertainty as to the cause of this, one theory was that global warming had played a role through its impact on the rate of movement of glaciers (and, not being a scientist, I can’t explain it any better than that).

    The expanding sea ice of the mid-2010s excited right wing gumbies such as Tim Blair (whatever became of him? Please don’t tell me because I don’t care). But Antarctic sea ice – particularly in East Antarctica (basically the part south of Australia) is less of an indicator of climate change than the ice of the Arctic, which has been declining for decades. Its extent fluctuates from year to year and it could well reach record levels again in future. But that in itself would not provide grounds for excitement on the part of climate change deniers.

  21. “But FUBAR is correct about Antarctic sea ice. It was at record levels less than a decade ago …”

    Again, we ask:

    1. Citation, please.

  22. OK, here’s a (reputable) source:

    ‘The *multi-decade increase in Antarctic sea ice that peaked in 2014*, identified here as *a high sea ice state between mid-2007 and mid-2016*, has been examined extensively, with contributions from high-latitude winds12,13 and Antarctic meltwater14,15 suggested to have played a role. Positive ocean-sea ice feedbacks may have perpetuated the high sea ice coverage16 during this period. In spring 2016, Antarctic sea ice *rapidly transitioned to a new, low sea ice state*.’

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-023-00961-9

  23. From the dawn patrol (with the usual thanks to BK:

    “ Kate McClymont reports that police investigated an allegation that Alan Jones indecently assaulted a schoolboy at the broadcaster’s sprawling Southern Highlands estate, directly contradicting a claim by the NSW police commissioner that no complaints have been received.”

    _______

    The NSW Police Commissioner is out of control.

    Time for another Royal Commission into the NSW Police Force. It’s been 25 years since the last one, and NSW needs a royal commission into police every generation to keep one aspect of the colony’s the Rum Corp mentality in check.

    #NSWpoliceRoyalCommissionNow!

  24. “The (then-record) 2012 Antarctic sea ice extent; compare with the yellow outline, which shows the median September extent from 1979 to 2000.”

  25. Chris Bowen at COP28:

    “We also must face this fact head on: if we are to keep 1.5C alive, fossil fuels have no ongoing role to play in our energy systems – and I speak as the climate and energy minister of one of the world’s largest fossil fuel exporters. And we embrace that fact and acknowledge it because we also live in the Pacific, and we are not going to see our brothers and sisters inundated and their countries swallowed by the seas.”

  26. Antarctic sea ice maximum – 2014: https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum/

    Why this occurred was uncertain at the time. One possible explanation was a change in air circulation patterns, bringing colder air over parts of the seas surrounding Antarctica.

    ” “Its really not surprising to people in the climate field that not every location on the face of Earth is acting as expected – it would be amazing if everything did,” Parkinson said. “The Antarctic sea ice is one of those areas where things have not gone entirely as expected. So it’s natural for scientists to ask, ‘OK, this isn’t what we expected, now how can we explain it?’”

  27. On Antarctic sea ice levels:

    Antarctic sea ice extent each September from 1979 through 2023. Based on satellite data, extent is the total area where the ice concentration is 15 percent or higher. In the past decade, the September winter maximum has been extremely variable, hitting record and near-record highs as well as near-record lows. NOAA Climate.gov image, based on data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center.

    Antarctic sea ice extent each February from 1979 through 2023. Based on satellite data, extent is the total area where the ice concentration is 15 percent or higher. In the past decade, the February summer minimum has been extremely variable, hitting both near-record highs and record lows. NOAA Climate.gov image, based on data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center.

    The Southern Ocean is vast, a fact often underplayed in map projections focused on the Northern Hemisphere. Natural cycles in the Southern Ocean can have pronounced effects on Antarctic sea ice. Atmospheric patterns, partly influenced by greenhouse gas emissions, are also at work.

    The Southern Annular Mode (SAM) is a pattern of westerly winds circling Antarctica. The SAM is influenced by El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) conditions, so it is partly driven by natural oscillations. At the same time, research has found that human-caused global warming tips the SAM into its positive mode more frequently, and the resulting wind effects generally tend to increase Antarctic sea ice extent. The SAM also affects the Amundsen Sea Low, which in turn affects sea ice transport and weather conditions over a broad area from the western Antarctic Peninsula to the eastern Ross Sea.

    Several consecutive years of below-average Antarctic sea ice extent, however, have captured growing attention from researchers. At the time of the record-low extent observed in February 2023, Ted Scambos, senior research scientist at the University of Colorado, Boulder, said, “If lower-than-average Antarctic sea ice extent continues, despite a shift in ENSO or with a range of SAM index values, it would be a strong indication that we’re seeing a climate signal emerging from the high variability of the Antarctic system.”

    Long story short: Climate change has a discernible influence on Arctic sea ice, but it has a complicated, messy influence on Antarctic sea ice. (Meanwhile, the Antarctic Ice Sheet is losing mass.

    https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/understanding-climate-antarctic-sea-ice-extent

  28. It occurs to me (but I claim no expertise above high school and undergraduate university physics) that one obvious possible explanation for the increase in Antarctic sea ice in the decade leading up to 2014 is that the whole Antartica system was heating – more glacial ice melts into the sea, causing the proximate water to cool further than usual and hence increasing the re-freezing of the surface of those seas into sea ice: the second law of thermodynamics in action.

    Anyone who has held a party in the summer will experience something similar the next day when you go to empty the ice buckets in the morning. The night before there was ice, beer and fairly cold water in those buckets. The next morning the ice has melted but the water is bullshit cold when you fish out the left over beers giving the sensation that the buckets have actually gotten colder, when in truth the system has obviously warmed as the water cooled even further than when the party was in full swing the night before (but obviously not the point where it could re-freeze like sea ice).


  29. What goes around comes aroundsays:
    Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 11:16 pm
    Though, as a fan of ‘Blade Runner’, I keep thinking that humans are extremely adaptable and they’ll just try to press on.

    ————————————————————————–
    The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. If as species we want to inhabit this planet for a long time. We need to cut back on many things we burn and how quickly we are burning through them.

    Otherwise we will be incinerate.

  30. ‘I will not be testifying on Monday. MAGA!’ Trump flips out on court in all-caps tantrum

    Taking to his Truth Social platform, the former president launched into a two-part, all-caps rant about how he is being persecuted and then declared he won’t take the stand — likely to the relief of his legal team which has been trying to talk him out of it.

    https://www.rawstory.com/trump-fraud-testimony-2666514619/?utm_source=msn

    It’s been just a few days since Donald Trump’s lawyer Alina Habba proclaimed he was not afraid and that’s why he would testify on Monday.

    “He still wants to take the stand, even though my advice is, at this point, you should never take the stand with a gag order,” ………… He will open himself up to whatever they want because he’s not afraid. People who are afraid cower. President Trump does not cower.”

    But by Sunday afternoon, that’s exactly what Trump confessed he would do.

    Taking to his social media in an all-caps rant, Trump said that the expert witness that they had through the final parts of last week will continue early into the week, finishing up on Tuesday.

    “I have already testified,” Trump explained, “and I have nothing more to say…”

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/people-who-are-afraid-cower-trump-s-lawyer-alina-habba-before-he-backed-off-testifying/ar-AA1li830?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=e1569e0bac7946b2893308038120b07a&ei=10


  31. Rossmcgsays:
    Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 9:41 pm
    C@t
    That’s a good trip.
    I have long wanted to visit Montana and see where Custer copped it.
    Grew up with the Hollywood version of cowboys and Indians then read the truth

    I think The Hollywood version of US is unbelievable.


  32. Rossmcgsays:
    Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:01 pm
    C@t
    And then I saw The Missouri Breaks, a weird western with Brando and Nicholson and the most amazing landscapes.
    I’m envious.
    Maybe 2025.
    But if Trump gets back …

    Then never?

  33. C@tmomma

    Good luck with your very extensive US road trip. My only suggestion is to see as much of the natural scenery as you can. The national parks and other reserves are quite awesome.

    You may also spot some unique roadside US billboards like “Vote Joe Bloggs for Sheriff” or “Vote Billy Bunter for Judge”. The highway system is very good as befits a country where the car is king, often not so great for pedestrians.

  34. “ I think The Hollywood version of US is unbelievable.”

    _______

    Insofar as that version involves concepts such as American Exceptionalism, Manifest Destiny and Provenance, then believe me – it is believed by wide swathes of the American population as an article of faith.

    Insofar as Hollywood sometimes throws up alternative versions, these seem to set off cultcha flame wars as far as the eye can see.

    America has ways specialised in cognitive dissonance on a grand scale.


  35. Shellbellsays:
    Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 7:00 pm
    People will be staying in our house while we are overseas staying with my sister but I am not sure if people are houseminding our houseminder’s house.

    Have a nice overseas trip Shellbell.


  36. MABWMsays:
    Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:33 pm
    Excellent observations Rambler, and Trump voters’ (misguided and myopic) enthusiasm vs Democrat voters’ general disinterest in Biden is the very reason the US may yet fall victim to Magalomania again in 2024.

    Democracy itself is on the ballot paper – and not enough US Americans seem to realise it.

    Americans are (what is that word?) self-absorbed at the moment.

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